Season 1 Finale: Behind the Scenes

Kat and Val’s season finale! Obnoxiously committed to practicing what they preach, our co hosts get even more vulnerable as they discuss and model the practices of centering ourselves in our interpersonal relationships. How doing so can feel tender and unpleasant, and how to allow room for unexpected emotions when they arise. Thank you to everyone who has been on this journey. If you’d like updates on season two or future bonus episodes please subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. 

*The information in this podcast is for entertainment purposes only*

Find us on Instagram:
Kat and Val Podcast

Val's offerings:
So This is Love Club
Reset Yourself for Love Program
Instagram So This is Love Club

Kat's offerings:
Fat Liberation Art -Fat Mystic Etsy Shop
Instagram Fat_Mystic_Art

Additional resources/definitions referenced in most episodes:
16 personalities quiz
Love languages quiz
Apology language quiz
Enneagram quiz
Enneagram
The Four Tendencies
Myers Briggs Personality Profiles
Highly Sensitive People (HSP)
Adrienne Maree Brown
Pleasure Activism; The Politics of Feeling Good
Come as You Are: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life
Book by Emily Nagoski
Attached - Book by Amir Levine and Rachel S. F. Heller
Understanding Dopamine: Love Hormones And The Brain
Fat Liberation Movement
Lipedema
Exvangelical/deconstructing from Christianity
ADHD

Transcript

Val: 0:05

You're listening to three questions with Katten, Val I'm Kat and I'm bow. We've been friends for over 20 years. Thousands of therapists and cats and artists. We're both great talkers. And we're both XFN delicacy who used to pastor gay. Now we both have chronic illnesses. We think we're fucking hilarious.

Kat: 0:33

Yay Cat Val are back after several weeks off. And if you are a longtime listener, you will find that this episode is a bit different than our normal episodes. We decided to like lift the veil a little bit and let you see what our dynamic looks like when we're not being excessively charming and brilliant. during the podcast. And, yeah, we, we noticed that we had something to kind of like work through and so we thought it would be maybe cool and beneficial. And transparent of us to like let you all see that. And so that's what you're in for. This is our season one finale and thank you so much for being on this journey with us. Here we go, Cat, and be. Hello,

Val: 1:17

Cat, is that you? Is it really? You

Kat: 1:20

Hello, friend. I haven't seen in a very long

Val: 1:23

long time. I know, and even longer since we last Podcasted.

Kat: 1:28

Hello. Welcome listeners. We're so happy that you're enjoying us.

Val: 1:33

Did you miss us? Come on. Tell the truth. Tell the truth.

Kat: 1:36

I missed us.

Val: 1:38

I missed us. And yeah, What have we been doing? What have you been

Kat: 1:46

No. you have to go first. Come on Val. You've got

Val: 1:49

Okay, Well our break, Our break all started cuz I was going to Europe my first time since the pandemic. And first it was Amsterdam,

Kat: 1:57

which you are such a fancy bitch.

Val: 1:59

Well, and Amsterdam feels like an old friend cause I've been there a

Kat: 2:02

Oh,

Val: 2:02

Okay And one of ra fe's business partners.

Kat: 2:04

What makes it like an old friend? That's

Val: 2:07

Well, cuz I've been there so much and I was feeling anxious about like the sh like it was, it was a very last minute trip. And then I get, like, I get, I wanna like, like plan new places and like see everything. But it was like, no, it's just like visiting an old friend. Like I've been there so many times. I could just like go and Oh yeah, I know where everything

Kat: 2:26

Yeah. That's

Val: 2:26

and it's so And then we stayed with Rufus business his family for a day, and I got like a, I I, I got a haircut kind of against my will

Kat: 2:37

That was funny. You showed me pictures, which

Val: 2:39

really funny. There was a small cat

Kat: 2:41

involved.

Val: 2:41

And and it was funny cuz I wouldn't let you cut my hair, but then this stranger, I kind of was like, All right, I'm taking a gamble, but she's a hairdresser. So

Kat: 2:48

There's a language barrier too, right?

Val: 2:50

yes. So I always feel bad like saying no to someone in another language cuz then they might. I might not do a good job letting them down easily. So anyway, it was lovely. And then I went to Florence where I, I'd never been to Florence before and met one of my best friends, Rai's twin, a Peacock twin and her husband cuz they they were there for business. And had an amazing time in Florence and I thought one day we were in like Tuscany and I, I, my, my great idea for like a funny t-shirt was like I got baked under the

Kat: 3:24

T

Val: 3:25

Sun

Kat: 3:27

Yay.

Val: 3:27

we just had Cappuccinos and Ella's princes and massages and maybe some, you know delicious gummies. And then did it all, took a nap and did it all again.

Kat: 3:39

Oh my gosh.

Val: 3:39

So that was, that was just, it was so fun, you know, just being in a new place and just experiencing.

Kat: 3:48

Being high in a new

Val: 3:49

plane,

Kat: 3:50

living your best life. I love it. I love it.

Val: 3:52

It was so good. And to be there with friends, meeting friends in different countries

Kat: 3:56

is like

Val: 3:57

pretty awesome thing to do. So we did that. And then also, I, I don't think we talked about this last year, but I went on the second annual. Las Vegas pickleball. Ch getaway

Kat: 4:10

Yay

Val: 4:12

with the local pickleball

Kat: 4:13

Yeah. Yeah.

Val: 4:14

Last year I think there was like 50 people that went, and this year there was like 80, I think.

Kat: 4:19

Yeah. Pickleball is taken off. I mean, everyone's super into it. And so you go and you travel for like a competition, right?

Val: 4:26

Well, what's funny is like, it's just, yeah, there is like a little tournament, but it's like someone's like, So let me get this straight. Yeah. You went to Vegas to play pickleball with the same people that you play pickleball here. all day you play pickleball and the next day you played pickleball and the next day you played pickleball. Mm-hmm. I'm like, yeah, pretty much

Kat: 4:42

So like you just get on an airplane, stay in a hotel to just play a ball all day, every day with the same people from

Val: 4:48

Well, okay. And then some of the, like the, the fun parts of Vegas, like we went and saw a show which again, like the creativity, like someone so, Oh. me like, I'm like, Well, why are things going well? She's like, I'm expelling my

Kat: 5:03

Mm.

Val: 5:04

In ways I hadn't been before. And I'm like, No, we need to do that. Like, and

Kat: 5:09

Wait, who is saying that too?

Val: 5:10

A client was telling me like, I was asked, she's like, Oh, things are great. I'm like, Tell me why things are great.

Kat: 5:15

she's

Val: 5:16

I have outlets to expel my It's so important, dear friends and listeners. if you're feeling like you're in a little rut, just not feeling yourself, need a little dopamine, pick me up, Get in contact with your creativity, or go watch someone else's, or turn on Project Runway or like Iron Chef or something where someone is being creative or that glass blowing one that everyone is excited about. I, I, I haven't gotten into that one. I gotta pace myself, but I just realized, Going and seeing creativity is just, I, it makes

Kat: 5:55

it all. Yeah. You know, the voice does that for me too. The voice will do that cuz like people are just like belting it out and they're like

Val: 6:00

making stuff their own Yes. Yeah. they

Kat: 6:03

collaborate right when they're doing the battles. So they have to, they've combined their creativity and their giftings and their talents. It's cool. It really, I love that

Val: 6:10

So important. Important stuff.

Kat: 6:12

Yeah.

Val: 6:13

And Yeah. You know, good food and yeah, there's a hotel there that has like 16 quarts and so you stay and it's a rooftop with a pool next to it and like frozen, like dri machines. So in the tournament as I'm like, How'd you do? I'm like, well, in the last one, my, my partner was, was drugs We didn't do too well. like, can we get that one stricken from the

Kat: 6:39

directly Oh

Val: 6:39

So you know, it, it, and then, yeah, you. But it's such an addictive sport. It's like, yeah, let's just play. And so we had a great time, but it was the second annual, the first time. I gotta tell you the story. Cause this never made it on the podcast. The first time we had we had, we hadn't met everyone and Rafi had hurt, my husband had hurt his foot, so not everyone knew him. And he couldn't play. So I'm like, Go put your speed on and go to the pool. Like, just do what you gotta do. Just be yourself, right? Like, I know you don't know these people. Just go be yourself. So we're, we're next to it, like playing pickleball and, and like the punchline is that there were guys from the trip trying to protect me from my own husband when he approached me in his speedo.

Kat: 7:18

they see is this tall man in a Speedo walking up to you being really familiar. Saing

Val: 7:23

up. Yeah. Like talking to me and, and two different people later came up to me and were like, You know, I didn't know Rafi was your husband, so I saw this guy coming up to you in a Speedo and like, what is he doing? Like, do I need to go protect her? And I was like, That's hilarious. Yes. On a regular basis, people trying to protect me from my own husband. But then later on we were hanging out with this guy and these, and these women were. Visibly thirsting for him. like, Like

Kat: 7:49

was he still in the Speedo?

Val: 7:51

No, this is another guy. Okay. Yeah, it wasn't my husband. This is a guy and he has this like,

Kat: 7:55

Oh.

Val: 7:56

Like this amazing, like, like white, like qu hair. Like it's, it's, it's, it's, it's very, you know, it's, it's a nice look, right? So he's out there and he's all, he's, he's just listening to this concert, but I'm watching these women like, like, like, I mean, it couldn't have been, they were just staring, thirsty, thirsty. Gaze is at him, right? Throwing him at him and he notices, he's listening to, to the, to the thing. And then it was funny cuz I was like, Do I need to save him

Kat: 8:24

him Right.

Val: 8:25

from them? I'm like, No, we're all grown adults. And so then this year everyone knew Rafi and they're like, Ahaha, But then this friend Anne Rafi went out just to hear the same, like, I mean, it's eighties hair, ba metal bands. I was like, No, thank you. Like, have a great time. Right. So they're out on like old, this is old Vegas where and there's these bands and so I guess this woman came up to our friend. And said something and then walked away and they're like, Oh, you know what, what did that woman say? What'd she want? Yeah. Oh, she, she was said she was looking for a good time. Was I looking for a good time? I'm like, Oh, they're trying to pick up on our friend again. So I guess Rafi went, went back out again later by himself. And then he's like, Man, the same woman came up to me. And then she goes, Are you looking for a good time? You want a good time? And he's like I'm watching the concert. And then she

Kat: 9:18

she goes, she

Val: 9:19

Well, do you know I'm expensive? And then he goes, Well, I don't know that, but I'm cheap

Kat: 9:27

and

Val: 9:27

she walked away.

Kat: 9:32

That's super funny.

Val: 9:33

job. ra. I love it. He's like, Well, I don't know. I don't know if you're expensive, but you gotta know I'm cheap. Ugh. So we've been, you know, having, having some fun out here.

Kat: 9:44

Yeah.

Val: 9:45

Other update is, I was so excited to tell you this morning that my fiddle leaf fig, which I'm just desperately trying to keep alive,

Kat: 9:52

Yeah. This cool big plant. Yeah. It's like a tree in your living room. Yeah.

Val: 9:55

Yeah. It has a mushroom

Kat: 9:56

Yes.

Val: 9:58

so we.

Kat: 10:02

the question,

Val: 10:02

I mean, I don't know how it got there. I even put, I haven't put new soil in it, like since I got it,

Kat: 10:08

That's amazing.

Val: 10:09

been outside, so I don't know how this mushroom creeped in, but it's there. So

Kat: 10:14

I love that. It's named after me. That makes me super happy. That's funny. I did like a big mushroom trip this weekend. Oh yeah. It was pretty cool. I'll tell you more about it later, but like it was, Yeah. And I, I, I, I think once upon a time I might have felt some discomfort with mushrooms be being associated with me. Like you see a mushroom, like I'm the first person you think of, but now I'm like leaning in. I'm like, Holy shit. Mushrooms are fucking amazing. Yeah. I'm a big fan.

Val: 10:43

and you sent me a text this weekend that was like a teller feet that you guys should cancel your plan so I could chaperone you two taking mushrooms together. And I just wrote back, No

Kat: 10:57

I know we had talked about getting together on Saturday or Sunday and then I was like, Yeah, and then you guys can do mushrooms after my gosh.

Val: 11:08

what have you been up to?

Kat: 11:10

Oh, I've been up to, not very much. It's interesting, so a few episodes ago, We talked about how, I think it was the vulnerability episode, we talked about how some of our discussions about family of origin stuff, right? Because we did an episode about family ties and and it just sort of was like a catalyst of like some deeper healing and and then I thought, I thought we had like discovered a new pocket of pain.

Val: 11:34

Yeah. Yeah. I felt very proud of myself that I coined

Kat: 11:38

it. Oh yeah. And I was like, Yes, A pocket. It's a pocket.

Val: 11:41

I've done so much healing before. I

Kat: 11:42

I know. And then you left town and it turned out it was like a chasm. Like all of my deepest inner turmoil, like my preverbal trauma. Oh, and I'm making a little bit light of it, but like I, I really decided to let go of any resistance I had to this being like a real season, you know? And so I started telling people like, Oh, it feels like I'm like, hermiting, I think I'm in a hermiting And that's just really true. So like, like people are like, Oh, what are you doing this weekend? I'm like, I do not have plans Like, and so I just you know, I get to be present with my kids during the week, and so that's, Social interaction plus, you know, I have a roommate you know, I get to see her pretty regular. And but I just, I need a lot of time still and it's real tender and it's also okay, but I'm doing a lot of deep work. And so you're out there like living your best life, like, on like, so many like, like, like adventures and like playing. Being in the world that I'm like, I am alone. So very alone. And

Val: 12:48

if anyone's listening, right, I mean for everyone who's listening right now, you've seen the title, which Ka won to say, Call Our First Fight. And I don't know if that's actually the title we, you know, in post protection and we might change it, but I think that like, I just wanna say we'll get to that and maybe some of that is, was pressing on, some of it was pressing on some of those wounds or.

Kat: 13:11

Yeah.

Val: 13:12

Yeah,

Kat: 13:13

Because you came home from Europe. Okay. Yeah.

Val: 13:16

your story. Go ahead.

Kat: 13:18

You came home from Europe. Yes. And broke up with me. Yeah. and I came over and I thought we were gonna record that day, and then instead you're like, Mm. I need a break. And then Rafi came downstairs and he said, Oh, hi Kat. And I was like, Hi. And he's like, How are you? And I was like Val just broke up with me, And he was like, Me too.

Val: 13:44

man. His comedic timing is pretty

Kat: 13:46

good too. Cause he's like

Val: 13:48

yeah, she tried to do that to me too. Yep. Yep. Join the club. Yep. Okay. You doing all right? All right. it was probably the tension breaker that we all needed.

Kat: 13:56

It was funny.

Val: 13:57

Actually. He interrupted a really He, he doesn't check, he doesn't read the room before he starts talking. And so I think I, I think I remember we. Deep in this, like, you know, deep and meaningful. He's like, Hey, Ka, how are you? And you're like Val's breaking up me right now. Excuse me. He's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's right. She said, It's me too we all had a good laugh,

Kat: 14:18

It was really helpful.

Val: 14:19

I mean, I'm gonna tell my side of it after the break, I think. Yeah.

Kat: 14:22

Yeah. Enjoy our commercials.

Val: 14:24

Yes. Are you looking for love? But you're ready to give up on dating it's. So hopper and reset yourself for love with me in my six week coaching program together, we'll prepare you for dating with new clarity, intention, and passion to create the life and love you desire.

Kat: 14:43

It's like you're a

Val: 14:43

dating doula. Exactly. I'm here to guide you on your journey to love. Grab your spot and get more info at. So this is love.club. Yay.

Kat: 14:55

Living in a culture that preaches conformity to narrow beauty standards. It feels really good to own art that celebrates honors and glorifies diverse bodies that mystic art uses photos from real people to create beautiful images that make all of us more free. Get yours today. Shop fat mystic on Etsy and follow that underscore mystic underscore art on Instagram.

Val: 15:21

Okay.

Kat: 15:21

Yes. So let me have it,

Val: 15:24

I. I'm not gonna dispute your timeline. And actually what happened cuz you were like, Hey Val, what are we gonna talk about today? And I was kind of like, Well I think I've got something else to talk about first. And I was like, Bitch, didn't I say to you, we need to talk about

Kat: 15:42

our

Val: 15:43

of beforehand. So here's your surprise. That is actually what happened. But I think at the same time, Well, you wanna tell her or do you want me to tell it?

Kat: 15:53

Well, so here's, here's, let's, let's paint a picture this way. ahead. So you and I are two people that are extremely emotionally intelligent. We are continuing to do the work of centering ourselves and our own lives. Yes. We're pretty good at like, owning our stuff and like communicating it clearly our wants, needs and desires. And even with all of these things, you are a separate person than me, right? You have your own. You know, needs and expectations and things. And so us centering ourselves created a, not an an angry or mean conflict, but an actual like conflict where we're like, Oh, we have to figure out how to navigate this. Yeah, Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Val: 16:31

So I had come to you with some like, Hey, Ka, I think for me to continue this podcast, this is what I'm gonna need and this is how I see the podcast. This is the podcast I don't wanna podcasts I might wanna do And this is what I think it might require a view for me to feel comfortable and in, I don't know, in your words, you were like, I think I understood you, but maybe I didn't fully,

Kat: 16:57

Right. Yeah. So I came away from that conversation, which I don't remember how many weeks ago. It was weeks ago. But I came outta that conversation being like, Oh, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Like basically, I think the way I came to understand it was like, you want the, the podcast to be a little more produced, right? And a little more like care and pre-planning and attention to it. And I was like, Totally. That makes, that makes sense. But I, I really left that conversation being like, We need better outlines, like, to make Val happy. We need better outlines. And I was like, Sure. Okay. So like, I wasn't like trying to be obtuse, but like that's really what I, what I understood. Yeah. And it turns out like it was actually a little bit more than that.

Val: 17:38

Yeah, maybe a little deeper

Kat: 17:39

that

Val: 17:39

that. And maybe just a little bit different philosophy or, or outlook about Yeah, just how the podcast cash should be, I But in the background of that conversation was also just sort of some real boring kind of lo logistical details. Sure. That. When you came to me about the idea about doing a podcast, I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm looking for a way to market my business. And the podcast is one of the options. And yeah, I think it would be great. And from the beginning I knew, what was ever gonna happen between us. I couldn't mold it and shape it into anything other than what it was gonna be.

Kat: 18:19

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Val: 18:21

And so we just talked a little bit more. Well, should we tell everyone we've had, like we've been talking in my dining room for like two hours, to be

Kat: 18:29

processing all our feelings. Good

Val: 18:30

job. We are doing more care

Kat: 18:32

Yeah.

Val: 18:33

For the podcast ahead of

Kat: 18:34

time.

Val: 18:34

Yeah. Processing feelings. But yeah, I always knew the podcast just had to be, what it was gonna be, and it was either gonna do what I thought it was gonna do or not. Sure. And it turns out it's not it's not actually, you know, correlating directly to my business. And so then it's like, okay, well then how much time can I actually. Commit to it. Yeah. So while we kind of, maybe were talking sort of philosophically or what we needed for the podcast, there's this other thing that really has nothing to do with you or I really is just kind of like time management and time allocation. So then yeah. I. Talk about that, which I knew wasn't gonna be your favorite. Is that my favorite? I've had, you know, it's been amazing to do this and I think that, you know, with our shared histories, I could speak for myself, but I think we both like really felt like, Oh, this is the part of myself I miss. And just like that we used to get from like preaching or teaching or doing other things, it was like we had a place to talk about. What was going on and,

Kat: 19:37

what we learned in all of our knowledge. like, we, like disseminating our knowledge. while being hilarious and irreverent. Yeah.

Val: 19:46

Oh. I had someone tell me it social discourse, like getting our voices out in the social discourse of, of what, how people are talking And I think that both you and I feel like, yeah, our voices should be out in the social discourse in some way. Like, we got, we got stuff to

Kat: 20:00

say, we got jokes to make,

Val: 20:03

we got stories to tell. We got like, like just some great analogies and like explaining concepts to give to people.

Kat: 20:10

Well, yeah, cuz also we have learned some cool fucking shit too, and that it does feel really good to get to that.

Val: 20:18

Yeah. We've done some really hard work in different areas, right? And like you said, how do you navigate that even between two people that are pretty good at this stuff, right. That it's still painful and still hard. And I know I have a, a hard time making decisions sometimes. And so I also didn't wanna I didn't wanna throw the baby out with the bath water, you know? And so I was like, Well what about if I just go with what I'm sure that I

Kat: 20:41

Mm-hmm.

Val: 20:41

And I think at that time I was sure that I knew I needed a break. I was doing the editing that took longer than I would love for it to, and I just was like, I think I need to. Spend some of this time that, you know, on my business and getting excited about some of the programs that I wanted to spend more time on. And so I didn't know for sure that this was the end end, but I just knew that I needed to take a And so I was ready to come in hot and be like, Hey Cat, this is what I decided and I got one more in me. So let's talk about transitions and endings and tell everybody that let's just end season one. Like it's a really long season. Let's just end season one so that it feels like, yeah, we could say like, Okay, we've done season one. We'll see if we'll be back for season two. And then What I didn't take into account in my equation was that I've had time to really think about this and become familiar with it, and I was just dropping it like a, like a hot turn on your doorstep and you're like, Wait a minute. So I, I, I fully own that. I didn't really think about, You might need some time to really just kind of sit with this process. It. Before we could come back. So you put a notice on our, Instagram page of like, we're taking a break

Kat: 21:58

Yeah.

Val: 21:58

so it's kind of given us some time Yeah. To process kind of what's been going

Kat: 22:03

on. Right. And so, yeah, I mean, it, it was surprising, well, maybe not surprising, but it, it did provoke a lot of feelings in me that I didn't anticipate. Right. And so on one hand I'm like, Oh, of course Val needs to center herself in her own life and how she uses her time and what she wants to invest in with her business. And, you know, of course like that makes perfect sense to And and, and so that was. One response, but then it took me a little while to like, actually feel the feelings I was feeling about some, some deeper reactions that had in me and like I. I started to realize, oh, this is dinging me, This is like dinging, like old abandonment feelings. And the idea that, you know, I think a lot of us, especially fem people, it's the like, Oh, I'm too much and not enough

Val: 22:53

time.

Kat: 22:54

Cuz there was, there, there definitely became an imbalance of how many hours you were spending working on the podcast versus what the tasks that I was and in the larger arc of my, you. My personal life while also producing the, the podcast together was just an epically challenging year, you know? And so I definitely over and over had a downshift to doing the bare minimum so that I could like, get through the fucking day, you know? Yeah. And then the podcast was like this lifeline of like, Oh, even though I'm having a particularly hard time of my life I could show up here and I could be like, good at And. And then it, it just, it created a fucking life raft. And so like all of a sudden my goddamn life raft is God, and I'm dealing with like deeper trauma than ever. And like, I'm like, Oh God. Like it was

Val: 23:46

Did you ever feel like, Come on, be honest. Did you ever be like, Fuck you, Val, what are you taking away My life raft.

Kat: 23:51

Really? No. Come on. I'm so much nicer than you No, cuz like, that's the thing. Like, I promise the idea that we learn how to send to ourselves is so fucking important to me, right? Yeah. And like, So like, I think that I have a tendency, I don't get mad at people very well. Like I, It almost does feel like a weak area. Yeah. Like, I'm not good at it. Yeah. You know, and like I, I. It sounds so strange, but like the kind of boundaries that you need to hold that sometimes requires like that clarity of anger. Mm. And so sometimes, because I just don't have a lot of access to that still mm-hmm. and, you know, I mean, I, it seems so strange to say it. I'm actively working on,

Val: 24:34

I was gonna say Yeah. You to, Yeah. You told me that you were noticing that you were able to access anger. Yeah. I always, if a client tells me that, that they're not mad at somebody who did something really horrible, I'm like, Oh, we're gonna have to,

Kat: 24:46

Yeah, well and

Val: 24:48

there's no access to it yet.

Kat: 24:49

Oh my God. Like, so I told her I did a mushroom trip this

Val: 24:52

Mm-hmm.

Kat: 24:53

Mm-hmm like I was doing some big work, like family of origin stuff, and I was like, Jesus Christ. Like my, my parents were very dysfunctional. There was a lot of childhood trauma. I'm relieved at that as to not try to trigger other people. However, I was. Ready to see them in their complexity and to, to contextualize their failures and not stay present with my own goddamn fucking story.

Val: 25:22

Mm.

Kat: 25:23

And so that's the work that I'm doing. Right? Mm. And so while all this big shit is moving around, I was finally able to be like really mad

Val: 25:32

Mm.

Kat: 25:32

Mad at my dead dad, you know, Yeah. And and I'm just sort of seeing that in, in, in other dynamics that exist in my life where I am not doing a great job. And, you know, and again, I don't, I don't mean it to sound like it's self critical, it's just that it's, it's a challenge for me and how I interpreted all my own trauma and how I chose to like, like mold and conform and contort in order to survive, right? I chose to be pleasing and I chose to be all these things. And the undoing of that vow is God difficult, you know?

Val: 26:01

Well, and our culture, right? I mean, not even just from the evangelical space of like, you know church leadership who, harm people. It's always let's contextualize, let's have empathy for, for them and what they were going through and never about the And so, and in our larger culture, it's, that still happens as well. So, Sure.

Kat: 26:22

And I do think both are necessary. I just think that I, you know, like I am kind of a person of extremes and so like I just lived in that other camp to my own detriment. I lived in the camp that. Well, and I think it's an incredible skill to be able to see a human being in their complexity. Right. And, and so, Yeah. And, and so empathy that ends up robbing me of my ability to stay angry enough to, to have like, boundaries. Like, it's almost like I've been doing boundary work for my own child

Val: 26:56

setting. Mm yeah, it's like for that anger to rise up I love the quote, I'm probably not gonna anyway. I don't it first, but just that our anger tells us that this is not okay. We should be treated differently. Right. So anger, it's always contextualized as a negative thing, but. That is like part of the boundary work, right? Like, Oh no, you've okay. Right. And kind of forces that reckoning

Kat: 27:23

or Yeah

Val: 27:24

expels the energy too, right? That's not okay. Hey, that's why we, we've been kind of talking about how we're just saying, Fuck you is okay, it just getting it out. Or I notice me and my husband do that so much. I'm like, oh. And it, but I think it's actually good

Kat: 27:41

I do too.

Val: 27:41

little bits, right? Cuz it's those little tiny resentments or the things that we don't say, or the emotions that get trapped in our body. It's playful, but it's expelling an emotion

Kat: 27:51

It is rid of. Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting, I heard you say the word resent resentments, and I'm like, Oh. Like again, resentment is another thing that's like, Resentment is like the lingering of anger, right, Of like, I, I am able to hold the fact that I was wronged here. Or even if it's a perception, I perceive that I was wronged I. Don't, I don't have access to that yet. Mm. Which is so strange. It sounds like, oh, that's a really like spiritually evolved way to be in the world. But it is a fucking over correction. It is a goddamn trauma response. You know?

Val: 28:33

I've walked clients the re some reasons why anger is hard for us when we've been wronged anger. Is the, is the proof that we've been wronged. And so when we recognize anger, we have to face that we've been hurt and that these, that, that people have hurt and that. Then that opens the gate of, well, why did they hurt and why did this happen? And so to acknowledge the anger is really to acknowledge that we've And sometimes that is a protective measure because if it's your parents, right? That's a very

Kat: 29:16

cause. Then once you're able to say, Yeah, I've been harmed, Right? And you, then the emotions have to come. And I, you know, it's interesting. Again, like I'm really fresh off this like trip where I, the weekend where I, I did a mushroom trip and mushrooms. Again, I don't know if you guys listen to the drug episode or if you watch the documentary on Netflix, but it's how to Change Your Mind on Netflix and it, we have these tools that sort of soften the trauma and allow you to feel the emotions without it being so fucking triggering and. Yeah. And so, you know, like this season I'm in, I'm like, hermiting, you know, has been, it's fucking rich and beautiful and I'm crying a lot, you know, and I'm I'm noticing that even though it's quite painful and really like a lot of stuff is there is also this, like the amount of like in, in

Val: 30:09

Mm.

Kat: 30:10

another like core wounding is being And so it is a very to but also like super the universe.

Val: 30:25

Mm.

Kat: 30:25

I can't explain that rationally. Makes no sense. It's like living in a, in a, in a dichotomy. like living in I, I know that this season doesn't last forever, and I feel the insides of almost like in real time. It feels like it's happening, like efficiently, you know? Cause I, you know, again, like hyper fixation, I'm all fucking in. Once I started to recognize what was happening, I, you know, I cleared my fucking schedule, Val, and then you cleared the fucking schedule for me. So, thank you,

Val: 30:55

This is one. Fuck you, Val. Come on. Come on, come on,

Kat: 30:57

Fuck you, Mel.

Val: 30:58

There we go. Yeah,

Kat: 31:00

Oh, it hurt my feelings to say that

Val: 31:07

Oh,

Kat: 31:08

Okay. I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try. Wait, listen. Listen. Yeah. Fuck you. Come home from Europe and break up with me. Oh, no. That's so hard.

Val: 31:19

Yeah. And right. I can hold the both end of like, Yeah, I did. You were saying something about not holding me responsible and I'm like, well, I mean, I think I am responsible, but also it, it not being a malicious Yeah Right. And my large amount of or access to empathy and yours too. I mean, I knew, this was not gonna be your favorite. I knew how, how important this was to you. And, and part of my work was to be able to say that, right? I can hold that I caused harm and also, Was not malicious and I had to Yeah. Right. To center myself.

Kat: 31:54

Well, that's what's so interesting. And because I can like totally get on board with like, of course we have to center ourself, you know, like, it, it really took me like a significant amount of time to be like, ouch. You know? I mean like, I knew it was ouchie, but like, How it hurt, you know? Or that, you know, I'm even hard, It's hard for me to say out loud it caused harm. I mean, it made me cry, but I cry all the time. So like, is that harming me? it. So did it harm me? I, I, that, that feels like a little harder to say, but what I can for sure say is it did feel like the, the, the floor dropped out from underneath me again. You know, And like I've had that scenario happen more than once in this year where I am, you know, just sort of happily, you know, clip it along and then the floor fluen drops out from underneath me and that. You know, doesn't feel good, and yet it sort of fed right into this, this season. That is good. This

Val: 32:51

season helping

Kat: 32:52

me and is, is. Producing something beautiful. You know, like I've been listening to Taylor Swift's new album and she has this song called Vigilante Shit. And I fucking love

Val: 33:04

what

Kat: 33:05

because, you know, and I wrote a post and I put it on my Instagram and I was like, I feel like I'm trying really hard to find a way to. Okay. If I'm like, like mad and angry, if, if I'm like the villain in someone's story, you know, like if I'm if I'm imperfect, if I'm like unapologetically flawed, unapologetically neurodiverse in a way that like, this is how my brain functions, this is what makes sense to me, you know, and, you know, as it relates to the podcast, like, you know, your clear ask is, I want it to be more produced. And then I sat with that and I realized, Oh, I don't want to, That makes it feel confining to me. And I love the, like that you can get into a flow state from just talking extemporaneously. And I like the freedom of that. And it feels like when we get to do that, it feels like we get to be in this flow state that is so energizing to me. And so life-giving that. That's what I wanna be able to do and say unapologetic, like, like, no, actually this is the thing that I'm good at. This is the thing,

Val: 34:09

Mm

Kat: 34:10

is how I'm good at it. I'm good at it in this particular way, and it's in conflict to the way that you want to be. You know, And that's not wrong, is different. Right? And so how we navigate that is still something we'll like, try to see what's out there for us. But

Val: 34:24

yeah. and. I think that maybe I wasn't able to say, Hey Kat, I think that a lot of the work of this was falling on my shoulders cuz I, I actually don't have a problem with the flow state or the extemporaneous. I think it probably was me feeling like I was shouldering more of the burden of the work and. maybe preparing more. Yeah, Yeah.

Kat: 34:54

absolutely

Val: 34:54

I think my bar's kinda low and I think that's maybe where some of our miscommunication came in. Cause I'm like, no, I, I'm not trying to stop that. But I want us to be prepared for a topic that we talk about. And, and actually it probably felt to me like maybe we were relying more on my expertise.

Kat: 35:12

Mm.

Val: 35:13

Doesn't always come from a flow stake cuz it's like, Oh yeah, let me remember the five symptoms of X, y, Z or let me. So I'm like, let me, let me brush up on that. Right? And then, and so I think that was clashing with like, I just wanna like speak extemporaneously. I'm like well, but yeah, sure you could do that Cuz. Cuz if we're speaking on the topic. I've done, I've brushed up on my research or on my expertise. So I felt like there was sort of that, that maybe a resentment building up or like we were, that was a foundation on which you could extemporaneously, but I was spending time making sure I was ready.

Kat: 35:52

Yeah. And that made you mad?

Val: 35:53

did make me mad. It did. and I could say it And I said, It did make me mad. It did make me mad. Yeah.

Kat: 36:04

You get. I love you so much, Val I

Val: 36:10

I love you too. You know, Can, we can tune in next time

Kat: 36:15

to

Val: 36:15

if Val can, you know, calm down.

Kat: 36:20

do the

Val: 36:21

homework, will the podcast survive those two asks? I'm not sure. Yeah. And, and, and you know, adding that to like, well, can I have the time? So I, I'm glad that I, cuz you know, from our personality test, I'm the Myers Briggs. I'm a J in the Myers Briggs, like I wanna see a situation label it, box it up in a nice little thing. Oh, that's what I think about that. Or Yes, this will work. No, this won't work. And that feels more comfortable for me. And so I, I've actually really tried to work on that cuz I'm like, man, I don't know that, that always serves me. Let me see if I can have the distress tolerance to be like, I don't know how I feel about that, or I'm not sure. And so as we were talking, as I was telling you, like, well, what I know for sure some, maybe some other ideas of how the podcast could continue. Yeah. Maybe, not every week. Maybe we do it on the weekdays, so I don't feel like, Oh, you know, I'm, I'm not spending time on, on, on some of my other business stuff or

Kat: 37:21

Right. Yeah

Val: 37:23

other, you know, ideas of how the podcast could continue. So I'm glad that I did leave that space because some other things Right.

Kat: 37:34

right. Yeah. And that's the thing too, like, so again, here we're sort of showing this with you all because we really value transparency and authenticity. so a lot of you have been on this journey with us this whole time with the podcast. And so we, we really did, we landed in a, in a place of conflict, right. And And again, not in any way malicious, not malicious conflict, Not all conflict is right. Mm-hmm. And so, so then the, the question

Val: 38:00

Well, except for when I was like, Fuck you cat. No, no, no.

Kat: 38:07

Actually, it's funny cuz during our, like long debriefing, before we started, I was like, Do you like me

Val: 38:12

No.

Kat: 38:13

I was like, you know, again, like it's, it's the context is like I have all this other real tender stuff. While, you know, you and I are navigating like smart, brilliant grownups navigating this, this conflict, right? And so I got to ask for what I needed. Cuz what I needed like was like, just like me please. Like me, Like still like

Val: 38:33

Does this mean that? Yeah. And I do do still like you a lot. and also I think that we have a responsibility because I, you know, we joke about how like on on social media, we, we see people's relationships and then all of a sudden one day it's just like their profile picture's changed and the other, they've scrubbed the other person. It's like we've heard all the good shit. Like, I, I at least make a statement what happened? Like it just feels like ghosting in kind of a different way. Isn't that funny?

Kat: 39:01

interesting. Yeah,

Val: 39:02

Yeah. It does feel like ghosting

Kat: 39:03

the time. There's all these lesbians that are like coupling up and then, and then it gets, it gets, there's some drama.

Val: 39:10

So I feel like No, you need to tell us what happened. We couldn't just stop the podcast and I don't think we would've ever done

Kat: 39:16

that. No. And we love it. We love the podcast. We love our listeners. Like there's a whole bunch of you that we, we know now that's We love you. Yes. Yeah. You know? Yeah. We don't know, but this is the end of season one. We don't know what season two might look like. We have some ideas and we're applying creativity to how we like navigate you, centering you and me, centering me. And and yeah, we might bring in some more people. And it could be pretty fun.

Val: 39:43

So subscribe would be a great way to know when we drop the next one. We might just have to come on before or after the holidays. Say hello. Yeah. Share whatever's happening. So that's that. And, and follow us on Instagram too just to kind of, we'll let everyone know when a new episode drops. Keep in touch. And we'll To be continued.

Kat: 40:10

be continued. Val, I love you so much.

Val: 40:16

Thank you. Thank you for being on this journey, for suggesting it in the first And I don't know if I said it during before, but I, I know it was the right

Kat: 40:30

Oh,

Val: 40:32

And of exciting

Kat: 40:36

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I can't wait to come back at some point and tell you all about my villain phase or

Val: 40:44

What's your Halloween costume? Is it a

Kat: 40:47

Nothing. I care about nothing right now. Oh, my kids are doing shit. But I like, people are inviting me to fun stuff and I'm like, I'm sorry, I can't I like, I can't make plans at all.

Val: 40:57

Well, cuz you told me Halloween is gay Christmas.

Kat: 40:59

Right. And so this year I'm just like, I'm not participating in the holidays. Ok.

Val: 41:04

just in case you wanna make like a TikTok thirst trap from your Hermiting cave

Kat: 41:09

Mm-hmm something. Yeah. I mean, if I get high, I might do that some night, cuz I, I still have those impulses for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Val: 41:15

right. I love you, Ka. Thanks for today,

Kat: 41:17

Val. I love you so much.

Val: 41:19

Bye everybody.

Kat: 41:21

Hello listener. Thank you again for hanging out with us this season. Saying goodbye and at creating a season finale was a bit bittersweet for us, as you probably heard. And I just thought it'd be fun to share a few like cool things with you before we said goodbye. Goodbye. So our little venture ended up creating nearly 3000 downloads in 17 different countries across the world. 360 cities and you, if you were with us for the whole journey, you heard 29 episodes that Valerie and I put out with lots of love and care and enthusiasm. Thank you so much for being part of this. Please subscribe if you'd like to be updated about when we've got more for you. Until then, good luck out there. Humans, we're cheering for you.