3 Questions with Kat & Val

Making Decisions Like A Grown Ass Adult

• Season 1 • Episode 15

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Kat and Val jump into what it looks like to live an “embodied” life. Can we cultivate a practice of centering our body’s wisdom as we make decisions - big and small? What if trusting your gut was something we could all get better and better at? With their characteristic cackle-laughter and vulnerability Kat and Val share all their hard won wisdoms with as much swearing as possible and a big dose of good-natured playfulness.

*This podcast is for entertainment purposes only

Find us on Instagram:
Kat and Val Podcast

Val's offerings:
So This is Love Club
Reset Yourself for Love Program
Instagram So This is Love Club

Kat's offerings:
Fat Liberation Art -Fat Mystic Etsy Shop
Instagram Fat_Mystic_Art

Additional resources/definitions referenced in most episodes:
Jill Johnson Young- grief talker
Five Stages of Grief
Intuitive eating.org
NAAFA National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance
Tell Me I'm Fat - This American Life
Prentis Hemphill
Vitamin D gummies!!!!!!
Adrienne Maree Brown
Pleasure Activism; The Politics of Feeling Good
Come as You Are: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life
Book by Emily Nagoski
Attached - Book by Amir Levine and Rachel S. F. Heller
Understanding Dopamine: Love Hormones And The Brain
Enneagram
The Four Tendencies
Myers Briggs Personality Profiles
Highly Sensitive People (HSP)
Fat Liberation Movement
Lipedema
Exvangelical/deconstructing from Christianity
ADHD

Val:

Hi

Kat:

Hi. How are we

Val:

now? Oh, you know, we're doing, we are right. We're doing, we.

Kat:

that's. Yeah. It's like being, we're being, we're being

Val:

we're being

Kat:

we're alive. We exist.

Val:

we keep

Kat:

air in and out of our

Val:

and we're still using humor to just kind of soothe a lot of yeah. Things aren't we?

Kat:

It's, you know, being alive is kind of a motherfucker

Val:

So today we're gonna talk about the body mm-hmm so we were just getting some comfort items, some fuzzy, soft.

Kat:

Yeah. I'm hugging like a big chunky sweater and it just makes me feel good. And I've got like a fuzzy yeah.

Val:

Getting ready for today's for days journey. Yeah. By the time this gets out, we will have launched two big episodes.

Kat:

Yeah. They feel really big to me. They feel big to you too.

Val:

Probably bigger to you, but yes,

Kat:

right. So we talk about grief. Yeah. And, you know, and I feel like that's the collective, and there's lots of things that we're experiencing communally that create grief and loss. Right? Yeah. And then, yeah, we went right into the breakup episode And I talked all about that. at the end I was like, oh shit, is this helpful at all? And

Val:

what did I just do? what is this? Is this helpful course. It's just

Kat:

me having my own cathartic event.

Val:

Oh my gosh. Okay. Mm-hmm I think I, I entered it in sort of sharing some of my own stories from the past, but also from like the therapist point of view, since I said sure. And we had a really great laugh about how hyped up I got

Kat:

Yeah. The part where you're talking about the dog is my favorite thing. I like realist for that.

Val:

So many.

Kat:

times

Val:

Gosh, that's okay. I was giving east coast energy, which is really funny, cuz it really is different than west coast energy. Sure, sure, sure. And most of the time we. We can find each other here in California. I just know the way someone talks, not even an accent. Yeah. Just their energy. I'm like you're from the east coast somewhere. Aren't you? And it is sort of this little nostalgia, this bond. That's fascinating. It reminds me of home of all my family. Right. Of all this like unnecessary

Kat:

sorry.

Val:

it's like aggression and excitement. Yeah, totally. And. Have you heard the thing about how, like, let's see the west coast is nice, but not kind. And the east coast is kind but not nice. And it's more of that, Hey asshole, get out of the middle of the street. You're gonna get it.

Kat:

definitely I'm here for that energy. I

Val:

It feel, feels so good. It feels really good leaving my body. I'm I'm connecting to my ancestors. You are. Yeah, you are nice. And you told me a little bit about something you did after the breakup episode, how you doing after that? Also, I did a really weird cut to commercials and we made a joke about it, but listeners, you know, I'm a sensitive person, but for some reason it was like, I blame the church for that. Ha, you were just vulnerable. and let's end there. then it

Kat:

is kind of a churchy thing where like, you end on this weird somber note, like you end in a minor key

Val:

oh yeah. Cause it's emotional, but then I'm not realizing like our commercials are all pep, so, so I, and literally

Kat:

about finding love. That's so fucking hilarious to me.

Val:

Yeah. So, but you know, you, I am tending to you in a gentle way.

Kat:

Oh yeah. They know Val they know you're like the best I tell them every week. Yeah.

Val:

But I'm highly, I'm a highly sensitive person though. I can't stand like hurting people even on accident. So you're doing okay.

Kat:

Yeah. And I did, I did, you know, we were talking about rituals too, as a part of, you know, that episode. the other night I was. I kind of worked up about some things and I could feel emotions moving around. And I, I did have some sort of like, I don't know, like, energy and like, anger probably. And it was just more angsty. Yeah. And so instead of like sad grief loss it felt angsty. And I was trying to figure out like, well, how do I engage with this? It was making me restless, you know, that restless,

Val:

feeling. Oh, I do.

Kat:

So I ultimately, it was like close to bedtime, but I decided to like, Write like stream of consciousness, just fill a page comes out. And my pen written outta ink and I ended up like grabbing this marker. So I'm writing words and I'm writing really big and I'm saying all these things. And then like, I just write on top of the writing until it just looks like this sort of abstract, scribble art piece. And then I, I keep writing, like, it's just still kind of moving through me all this energy. And so like the page is practically black and I was like, whoa, I flip it over. And I write a little more on the other side. And then I'm like, yeah, I gotta burn this I had to look up when the next full moon was

Val:

of course,

Kat:

of course. I was like, that's a thing. You burn stuff on the full moon. And so I look it up and it was too many days away from and I was like, I'm too fucking impetuous. So I'm like, oh, I know I'll burn it now. Like literally right. The second I like open my window. I like had a little like metal container. And I turned on my, like, I have like an air purifier. Yeah. Cause right. We have all these fires in California. now Yeah. So I have all this going at once. and I just ripped this whole thing up and piece by piece, just burn it. And I was like, yeah, this is helping. This is good. And then I kept the ashes and then when the moon comes, I'll scatter them. It's whole thing. And you have the bust of both words. You can be completely impetuous and you can still honor the, full

Val:

Can we, please do like a full moon, something together

Kat:

Oh

Val:

full moon.

Kat:

Yeah. That's a good idea Know Yeah Would you burn good idea. I don't know. Yeah. What'd you burn? Oh, we

Val:

like

Kat:

You burned something. Bring your ashes, let bring, roll our ashes.

Val:

I just wanted to be together. Yeah. So we're in Florida, there's tons of people at the beach at the full moon.

Kat:

okay.

Val:

Reenergizing their

Kat:

That's a thing

Val:

oh, maybe we can like, get out on the the water on the

Kat:

God, that would be amazing. Yeah.

Val:

Okay, listeners,

Kat:

You guys all really wish

Val:

we'll give you wish

Kat:

you were friends with Val. We'll

Val:

We'll give you secret coordinates.

Kat:

That's a good

Val:

They're embedded in this episode. No, just kidding.

Kat:

Oh my God. That would be the most fun. I wish that I knew how to do shit like that.

Val:

okay. Maybe in the future. We'll do like a full moon. Oh, I think we're just getting a great idea. Right now. We are like a full moon gathering with three questions with Kenton, Val

Kat:

we'll be like, what are you learning about?

Val:

What? Bring something you

Kat:

for you. Let's have some pleasure together.

Val:

Yeah. Bring your ashes.

Kat:

Pre burned. Just ashes.

Val:

We don't, we don't want

Kat:

we don't wanna a lawsuit. We don't wanna fuck with your fire. You guys deal with your own

Val:

Please bring your ashes. This is California. And the three ounces, container TSA approved. yes. Yeah.

Kat:

Oh thank you. Thank you. All of you, our listeners, it's such a joy to be able to do all this stuff and share this with you. And in our minds, you really are like hanging out with us

Val:

And

Kat:

we know some of you all, but like, I know there's plenty of strangers on here too. And I'm like, you guys are our friends too.

Val:

yes, Yes. So reach out, just say hi, you can find us on Instagram to yeah. Or leave a comment or a review on apple podcast. we really appreciate that. And we thank you for everybody who yeah, we do reached out.

Kat:

So how about before we jump into like this great topic we're doing today, we throw to just

Val:

jump into it. Ah, you are so genius. Cat max. why? Thank you.

Kat:

Oh, you. We'll be right back.

Val:

Are you looking for love? But you're ready to give up on dating it's. So hopper and reset yourself for love with me in my six week coaching program together, we'll prepare you for dating with new clarity, intention, and passion to create the life and love you desire.

Kat:

It's like you're a

Val:

dating doula. Exactly. I'm here to guide you on your journey to love. Grab your spot and get more info at. So this is love.club. Yay.

Kat:

Living in a culture that preaches conformity to narrow beauty standards. It feels really good to own art that celebrates honors and glorifies diverse bodies that mystic art uses photos from real people to create beautiful images that make all of us more free. Get yours today. Shop fat mystic on Etsy and follow that underscore mystic underscore art on Instagram.

Val:

okay. So today we thought that we'd talk about the body. Yeah. And I have a little funny story for you

Kat:

Oh tell us your funny story

Val:

about it. Well, you know, I'm just being a little bratty here and actually I'm just, cleansing the, the shared spiritual space of our friendship. Am I getting this off our chest? I

Kat:

like it when you're Brad you know, that right. I

Val:

Feel bad. But a while ago I came to cat and I was like, cat, you're always saying, just listen to your body, just listening to your body. But, how do you do that? Let's talk about that. And then your response. I wish it was an email, cuz I'd read it back. Cause I don't think you fully believe me, but you were like. They're adults. I don't

Kat:

they

Val:

to hold their hands. They could figure out how to do it. Like they could Google it. I was dumbfounded. I'm sorry. It's

Kat:

very dismissive. I can hear that now I mean, my brain was doing something else, The way I understood that request was I think I have an aversion to all the stuff out there. That's too guru. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And like the 10 steps to blah, blah, blah. And I was like, fuck all that So I think that was me having like an overreaction so like this very helpful thing that you wanted to do for all our listeners. And I was like, no and I heard your feeling

Val:

well, I thought the dog was a pretty reasonable idea. It is.

Kat:

It's a really good idea. And it was really good when I had it later myself.

Val:

Exactly. Fuck you cat. Yeah. So that was just a real cleansing. Fuck you. It was so great. So cat sends me an E email. Have a great idea for our next episode. I'm like, oh yeah, fuck you. Yeah, oh, I should have said you already vetoed this cat. You already vetoed this idea. I'm sorry. We can't do it. Oh no, it's all good. Okay. So we've decided our collective wisdom brought us. To this body episode. Yes. And oh, I started to say, that you pushing back on the guru narrative is very helpful for me. Oh good. This is about our experience. Yeah. And we happen to have some knowledge, right. I don't need to like study for every episode. Yeah. And this is about us, our process, our friendship, our, yeah. I don't wanna say messiness. It's not that messy, this is more about our experience. entertainment folks. Right. that has been really freeing as well for me. Right. So I wanna recognize that too.

Kat:

that's so cool. Yeah. Cuz like, I think I just have, at this point, my life a strong distaste for anyone who's like, I'm the authority on this and I know all the things, right I'd much rather it be like, yeah, these are the things I've learned along the way. And if it resonates with you, you take it fine. Also you're a grown ass adult person. right.

Val:

That's what she said, folks. When I wanted her to tell you about body stuff, she's like, they're grown ass people. Well,

Kat:

and I know that sounds so funny, but like. I do trust us as individuals on our journey I have such a deep trust in my own body. And even like, I don't know, this sounds kind of Woohoo, but the universe to sort of bring things to cross my path at the right time. I met someone recently that they have really big book FOMO, I was telling'em about a book I was reading and they're like, oh my God, is that good? And like, it really is. Oh. And I was like, I don't have book FOMO. There are so many amazing books in the world. There's no way I could read them all. Yeah. So I just gave that up and then like books sort of organically crossed my path and I'm like, oh, I'm attracted to that when I'm gonna read it. And I get great stuff out of it. Sometimes I'll read the same wonderful books several times over, you know what I mean? I can't read everyth. Sure. And so I just allow like, you know, the universe to be like here, try this book and I'm like, oh, I love this book. Thank you. So I think I'm sort of projecting that onto other people and all of our journeys, all of us have stories where something significant acrossed our path and it was meaningful and resonant in

Val:

that moment. Mm-hmm and it directed

Kat:

our path. Right? Yeah. And so that's why I don't wanna be like, Hey, listen to me, here's 10 steps of how I learned to do the thing. And now you can do the thing just like I did.

Val:

Yeah. Well, I think, yeah, we're, we're doing a good job of holding things loosely. Yeah. Saying, Hey, this is our story. Right, right. Because we're just telling our story. We're not here necessarily to teach, but my darling catch mm-hmm you have a lot of wisdom. You really do lean into getting knowledge from your body. So I think you do have things to share, but so what we're gonna do today is we're gonna talk about, how to actually make peace and, and have your body as a home, right? Yeah. Then we're gonna talk about just lots of different spiritual practices that we've tried, that body practices. Yeah. Right. And then I want you to talk more about like, how to actually start these body. Check-ins like, if someone has never done it before totally. And then How to live a life of body led decisions.

Kat:

it's

Val:

gonna be good. Doesn't this sound good? It's a journey cat. It's not a list. Okay. Yeah. The first place we need to start is actually getting back into and that journey. Right. So you wanna start there?

Kat:

Well, okay. So we spent two episodes talking about our relationship with our body and fat And we're really clear about this. It doesn't matter what size of body you live in. We live in a culture that has undermined all of us, having peace in the body. We

Val:

Oh, can you say that again, please? We

Kat:

live in a culture that has undermined any of us having peace in the body we Yeah. And it's quite toxic. And so all of us, it doesn't matter what size body you live in. All of us need to do the work mm-hmm to unlearn some of these internalized messages about Constantly critiquing your body and feeling like it's not acceptable. Right. And so we do that by engaging in a process of welcoming in body neutrality. Yeah. And so like it's a journey and depending on you know, who you are in your temperament and all these other things, it can take a long time. Right. So let's just be gentle with ourselves. And of setting the bar at like, I'm gonna love my body, like Lizzo loves her body.

Val:

Mm-hmm

Kat:

right. Start with okay, well, if I'm having a critical thought about my body, can I move towards being neutral? And then I think a really helpful piece of engaging in this journey of like, okay, I'm just gonna be neutral about my is you. It is just the framework is the home I have. Right. This is the home I inhabit

Val:

it's me until,

Kat:

until I die. Yeah. And so this is a very worthwhile effort.

Val:

Yes. You know,

Kat:

We think about how much, like time and energy you put into trying to buy a home or live in a, space and you make it your own, you do all these things. Right. Well, come on people, we actually deeply inhabit the physical form

Val:

Yeah.

Kat:

And allowing it to be a place You know, top shelf priority shit right

Val:

Sure. Yeah. And, and you and I were talking about how, evangelical Christianity yeah. There was all the purity culture. Right. Yes, your body's a temple, but the, emphasis is on your spirit. It's about your soul being saved,

Kat:

right?

Val:

And yet there's also this white patriarchal vision of what especially look like, and even how men should Right. If we're talking but I felt like I had to come back into my body mm-hmm and the more messages that I heard and internalized, right. About how bad my body was, how it shouldn't look this way. Right. The less connected I was to my body. Exactly. And therefore I was eating and exercising and making decisions so disconnected from my body. Cuz there was so much shame. Yes. When I would connect with my body and actually feel it.

Kat:

Exactly. Wow Yeah. Okay. I just wanna say too. So you mentioned like our Christian background, but I see it even in some like more spiritual. Circles two people like to refer to our physical body as like a meats for our spirit. Right. And I, I don't like that either. Our body is not a fucking meat sack. No, It is incredibly sophisticated. Right? You think about just the systems of the body and all the things that are happening without our conscious mind to keep us alive.

Val:

Right. would, you

Kat:

that's a wonderful spouse just for gratitude right there. You know,

Val:

it's almost like our body, I've never thought of this before, and maybe I'm full of shit, it's almost like our bodies are an outward

Kat:

manifestation of even

Val:

like the inside. Like if you think about, yeah. Like if, if really we're so separate, you getting butterflies, when you meet someone oh. Or nervous totally. Before an interview that shouldn't happen. If your body and your mind and your emotions are separate, they're

Kat:

not, no, we're

Val:

intertwined. They're not, the brain gut connection. Yeah. You know, we've seen that the polyvagal theory about your vagus nerve. Exactly. Exactly. Really just regulating your whole body because of trauma and emotions and thoughts. Exactly, exactly. So,

Kat:

yeah. And then you just, you look at DNA, right? So like

Val:

the idea

Kat:

that so trauma can be stored in your DNA for generations past so I just wanna say our bodies are masterful mm-hmm If I have a guru, it's my own physical body, Our bodies can be profound teachers to us. if we will give them their do honestly, really. And so we start with well, I gotta make peace. I'm just gonna be neutral about this body of mine. And then what happens is you begin to open up the dialogue and engage in and really inhabit your body. And then you start to live a life where all the decisions you are making are really like centered in. Does this feel good in and wow, it's a way different way to

Val:

So the call is to actually come back into your body, right? Like connect to it. Yeah. Trying to be more non-judgemental yeah. Be at peace. Right. We've talked about radical acceptance last couple And love it too, I think, right? If plants can grow, mm-hmm, differently because of how we speak to them. Imagine your body. I've been challenged by that. Like, oh, I broke down and cried once actually about it. Yeah. Just that I didn't realize how upset and angry I was at my body for failing me. Right. In so many ways. Right. Even with the infertility, that's when I realized it oh, right. Where I was mad at my body for being in so much pain. Yeah. And let's face it too. Right. It's the pain. Not just be, not being able to work, but the pain. And then I don't even know if I felt that that was a failure, but then to add on the infertility that, oh, you failed me again.

Kat:

Mm.

Val:

and I think I realized, oh, I wasn't giving myself compassion. I was really angry at my body.

Kat:

Well, again, that's the thing, like, I don't know anyone who was raised in an environment where like kindness as the default to self is modeled.

Val:

Ooh.

Kat:

Like, and that's what I try really hard to, Live and then model to my kids is that being kind to ourselves and being aware of what our needs are, but really like self kindness. It is a radically different way to live. My first thought in my head when I'm experiencing something is not to berate myself, it's to offer kindness to you know? And that doesn't mean I don't still experience all these negative emotions and I, you know, I cry a lot. I mean, it's not that it saves us from how hard it is to be a human in the world, but it absolutely softens I've created. Safe place on the inside. And we'd like to share some things of like, maybe you could too. So I had this really huge epiphany was that my default really is to be kind to myself. And so when we were Christians, we were doing ministry and there's all this, I'm gonna use the word propaganda, but there was all this indoctrination about what did it mean to be like Jesus in the world.

Val:

Right. Mm-hmm how to be loving and kind

Kat:

And so we like got all these fucking skills to be really kind in the world to move through the world. The way that we thought Jesus was telling us to, okay. That required effort and work. And then skip ahead where I've had this deep practice of self-compassion where I'm genuinely not unkind to myself internally, and so all of a sudden being kind and generous with other people did not take any effort. It just is the overflow. Right. And that doesn't mean like, sometimes I'm anxious or I'm kind of activated. And so like, I can still be short with people. I'm still human, but the larger overarching true thing is that I'm not striving to be kind in the

Val:

world Ah, it's coming more naturally out of your own.

Kat:

It's just the overflow. It's the natural overflow. Sure. Of just being kind to myself. Sometimes when we want the end result before the process, I'm not saying, Hey, be more kind in the world by being kind to yourself first. That was just oh, look bonus Sure. What I'm saying is it's worth it to be kind to yourself. Like just your home, you deserve to have a home. That's lovely. Yes. That's full of softness and gentleness and play and pleasure. Yes.

Val:

That's our

Kat:

birthright And then what happens is as the glorious overflow is that there's less suffering in the whole fucking world. And then as we engage with other human beings, we just are softer and gentler. Yeah. Or more playful or more lighthearted you know,

Val:

I love it.

Kat:

It's better.

Val:

Can I say something about internalizing messages? Yeah. Yeah. So if you've never heard this term before, I talk about it a lot with self-confidence mm-hmm or your beliefs about yourself. Sure. if your validation is always external, it's not inside. Right. You always have to be getting it from the outside. Of course. Right. So someone says, oh, you're pretty, or you're smart because you don't believe it on the inside. Yeah. You are Dependent on those on the outside. Right. So I talked to them about taking those things that maybe they kind of wanna believe about themselves or people have said, yeah. And then it's like internalize it and I'm motioning, like eating something. Like, it's almost like you're eating it. You're bringing it on the inside. Yeah. So it resides here. Exactly. Yeah. And so that even in the face of some other messages, right. it's internalized, right? Yeah. It's on the inside and now you believe it. Okay.

Kat:

where I wanna say like all of us out there, we can add our own creativity to how to do that. Right. the howto part Cause like what you're just describing. Remember in the other episode, you're like have some rituals, fucking a people make up a goddamn ritual. Like what sounds fun to you? Do you wanna like take a glass of water, take a Sharpie, marker. And write the word, love all over the, the glass. sure. Why not? That's fun. There's some fucking study. That's like the molecules of the water change. What the fuck. I don't know how that works. And So then you're just mindful. You're just like, I am drinking this in, I am welcoming this into my body.

Val:

Right? Ooh, that's fun.

Kat:

Like, do you wanna like, get yourself like the best fucking cupcake and the whole city you live in and be like, this is me loving myself. And this is this like gift to myself. This is pleasure. This is love. This is joy. This is like the child likeness, all the things. This is what I'm saying. Like, I don't wanna tell you what to do. I want you to like, own your journey. Yes. So like

Val:

You trust yourself. You're saying what are the ideas that are coming into your mind that, oh, I think that would feel good. Yeah. Like,

Kat:

and how can you be a little bit like. I recognize I have dissonance about being in my body and having a body and having body neutrality. Okay. So you start there wherever you are, like, try to just go to the mat with yourself and decide, get a real, like, feel where am I in this journey? Mm-hmm where would I like to be? And then like, what's it gonna take to get there, add some creativity. so, you know, we see mindfulness a lot and really, you know I do have a deep meditation practice, but do you know what it looks like in practical, like application? I lay down in my bed. that's it, I'm just laying in my bed because my chronic illness and the level fatigue I experience regularly, I lay in my bed a lot.

Val:

Mm. And

Kat:

so sometimes I'm just letting my mind scan my whole body, taking some deep belly breaths. and I'm just saying nice things to myself. just internally, sometimes out loud. Like some people like a lot of structure. I don't like a lot of structure, so I just make it up in whatever feels fun and resonant and, and necessary in the moment. We talked about grief, you ride the waves. Like all of life feels like that to me. So like, whatever in this present moment feels like it's gonna be a way for me to engage. Then that's the thing I'm gonna like, kind of grab onto in

Val:

that practice. Mm. So the, the inverse. Yeah. So sometimes we have internalized messages about our body, right. Mm. We all have, it's like, they're inside. Right. And so you be carry those around. Yeah. And I think it's the process of expelling the ones. Yeah. That you're deciding. No, I'm actually not gonna carry this around. I don't believe that about myself anymore. Yeah.

Kat:

Maybe see, sometimes this is the tricky thing, somewhere in your body, you do believe it. And so you just acknowledge that. And that's where I offer compassion. Like sometimes I I'm really specific, there's a belief that in my brain I know is not true. Yeah. Right. Okay. So one would be I do not deserve love because of the body I inhabit mm-hmm right. Many of us feel that mm-hmm There's a belief because we've internalized it from the culture we live in. So just acknowledge if that's really there. Yes. And then you offer compassion and you just say, I'm so sorry that you're not worthy of love because of the body inhabit and you just say it to yourself. Right. And instead of trying to Paste over it right away, because you gotta, again, this is the radical acceptance. You gotta really own. What's true still, right? If you jump to I love myself, I know I'm beautiful. Right. You're sort of bypassing this other true thing that needs to be dealt. with that's you gotta get all the way underneath it.

Val:

Well, I think that's why people are having a hard time. Yeah. Like body positivity. No, like right. What happens when like my pants don't fit and it is that acknowledging. Yeah. The pieces like that are still there. Yeah. Right. It's not this binary. We wanna be. Yes, no. On off.

Kat:

I remember being in like dressing rooms and it being gross torture. Oh. Because of those internal messages, right? you're putting clothes on your body. They don't, you don't feel like they look good. They don't feel good. Maybe they're too tight. You have to change sizes again. And oh my God, it would be such a downer. But if I would've known, then what I know now I would sit myself down in the change and I would cross my hands across my Catherine, You are allowed you are. worthy as you are. You are welcome here. You are home and you are safe. And we're gonna buy whatever we need to buy for you to feel good. And it's okay. It's okay. That it's different than it was mm-hmm I think I just healed my younger self Yes. Yeah.

Val:

Oh, yes.

Kat:

That's what it looks like to offer compassion to the pain. Mm-hmm right. To not cover over it, to not be like, you know, does that right. That

Val:

makes sense. It does. Yeah, it does. and I think that's where some people are getting caught in. Like, why do I have to always be positive about my body? You don't, and I love this quote if it helps anyone else. It said if you're only loving your body, when you think it looks good, that's objectification, right? Not love.

Kat:

Right? Yeah. And again, love might be a bit of a leap for some of us. And so you start with neutrality which is just, I am allowed to be as I am.

Val:

Yep. Ooh.

Kat:

allowed to be as I am. Yes. Okay. Yeah.

Val:

So from this great foundation,

Kat:

right? Mm-hmm mm-hmm

Val:

then we just thought we would talk about some of the different body practices. Yeah. If you're like, how do I, how do I get more in touch with my body and notice it yeah so we just wanted to list some off and talk a little bit about them and then guess what you're grown as adults

Kat:

you can see what resonates with you and what you would like to play with and experiment with. Maybe

Val:

we need some Mer that's like, I'm a grown as adult, like cat says, I'm a grown ass adult. I get to do

Kat:

I like it better if it's your grown ass adult, like the person who's reading it, you know, like come correct. You're a grown

Val:

as adult You

Kat:

You know what I mean? I know what I am

Val:

just

Kat:

fuck you. You're a grown as adult go live your life.

Val:

Okay. So what are some of the things KA that you've done

Kat:

okay. So we, we touched on some already, so there's mindfulness and there's self-compassion and we talked about what that looks like. I love deep breathing as a very quick get in my body. And then one of the things I read a while ago, and again, it just, jumped out at me and it resonates with me. There's lots of different ways to do deep breathing. Yeah. What I like is to try to fill my, whole belly with air mm-hmm I like am pushing air into the lowest part of my

Val:

belly mm-hmm and

Kat:

that's just one of the things that I like. And then sometimes I'll add mindfulness to that. Right. So you're breathing in, you know, good, beautiful things, love and acceptance. And then you're exhaling things that don't serve you anymore. Old beliefs, anything like that. Right. Mm-hmm

Val:

Can I say, some people really don't, like the deep breathing or like am I just gonna sit here and breathe? That's why I, like, we talked about the different kinds of music, the sound bads. If I'm focusing on the music right. And I'm breathing to it. Mm-hmm that gives me something else to think about. Totally. And that's pleasurable for

Kat:

Yeah.

Val:

Yeah. But I talk to clients about. The one big deep breath. Oh yeah. You're in a situation you're starting to feel flooded or upset. Just a one big deep breath and a long exhale. Right. So that long exhale to give you that big,

Kat:

relaxation. Yeah. I I don't do it over and over again. Like I do it just enough to be like, oh yeah, I'm back in my body. Now also napping. Like, I can't emphasize this enough, but an adequate amount of rest. Right. Like sometimes we are, in like a autopilot and just stopping. Right. Yeah. And being like, oh, actually if I lay down, if my head is just, parallel to the earth, that sounds more wooo than, I mean it to be, but there's something about orienting yourself differently in the world

Val:

I think maybe just one thing that could be really helpful, a, a first key step to coming back into your body. Mm-hmm that we use with people who dissociate, right? Is grounding exercises. Right. Mm-hmm, something very simple as just putting your barefoot feet on the ground and feeling it.

Kat:

You can do that also just by touching yourself, in a repeated pattern, you can touch yourself anywhere, but I like to touch myself on my chest and just kind of gently pressing

Val:

a little bit. Yeah. You were talking about like, just do it feels intuitive folks but no, there is wisdom. There is deep, deep wisdom in all of us. Maybe, even from your cultures, that some of these practices are deep. Like the breathwork practices of course come from like deep, deep wise cultural heritages that have had this wisdom for a long time. Right, right. but I do remember research shows, I guess if you hold the back of your skull. Mm. And, and also on your heart. Yeah. Like above your heart. Yeah. Those two places will reduce your anxiety incredibly quickly. So I guess I wanna point that out. Instinctively you're like this. Feels good. Right. So that's what we're pushing. Yeah. And also it's kind of cool. At least for me to find out oh, that's really a thing. Right. Like how I said, I stopped the yoyo, like going on diets. Cause I was like, I just can't do it. Yes. Yeah. I just can't go through that ride anymore. And to find out that isn't good for you. Right. So I was like, oh wow. Like intuitively I was like, no, I can't do

Kat:

up and down. that's has the health ramifications negative health outcomes versus just having more weight on

Val:

your ground Correct? So the grounding too, you can ground through any of your senses, feeling a fuzzy blanket, right. Smelling your favorite sense, right? All that stuff. Naming three to five things in the room. You kind of talked about a body scan where we just kind of go from the top of your head to the soul of your feet and just notice. I mean, what a fucking revelation, I mean, of actually paying attention to your body and going know, oh, let me check in with my head. Right. How is it feeling? Let me check in with my shoulders. What a fucking revelation. We check on everything else in our lives.

Kat:

I know. It feels really nice. Again, I'm napping, I'm laying down whatever. and I like to use my imagination so much. I find it to be an incredibly So I picture a light going from the top and sort of scanning me and I go down, I watch it. Sometimes I'll even just imagine that it's warm. Imagine the

Val:

light is one.

Kat:

And So you, bring this light down that the muscles that it's coming in contact with, shoulders.

Val:

Mm-hmm

Kat:

and then you just take it all the way down your feet. You come right back up again. You add some deep breaths, That's why I'm like a huge proponent of adding your imagination to any of these practices, amplifies it's Efficacy.

Val:

yes. There's so many great. I'm sure listeners, you, you all are into some really cool shit. Yeah, you can imagine a light yeah. And changing colors and going in your body. And I mean, there's tons of ways that you can do all that. The progressive muscle relaxation though. If if you hold a lot of tension, mm-hmm, just going from the top of your head down through your body, in different muscle groups. Yeah. Clenching them and then relaxing. Oh,

Kat:

I do that one too. That's a good

Val:

like for going to sleep at night sometimes just even noticing oh, wow. I didn't know. and it helps you actually relax

Kat:

Exactly.

Val:

Slowing down. Yeah. Which by how fast you and I both talk you'd be surprised, but I, I know for me, slowing down, mm-hmm just noticing that mindfulness does help that just taking that pause, saying, huh, what's happening here. Taking that extra beat. Right. I even tell clients like that one big, deep breath will just give you that beat to notice things. And then you can kind of ask how is

Kat:

right? yeah.

Val:

Any kind of body movement.

Kat:

Oh yeah.

Val:

We wanted to talk about

Kat:

Well, totally. So like, yeah. I, whatever it is that you like to do again, like when we think about body movement, so many of us. Maybe some traumatic experience with exercising in order to change and right. So you just, you go on a journey with that too. And you're like, well, well, does any of this spring pleasure? Does it bring joy? Does of it feel fun? Like a game, like when you're a kid and then just do the things that make you feel happy, make you feel

Val:

good. Yeah Dancing, stretching. Yeah. Yoga do yoga.

Kat:

Anything that moves your body gets you back in your body, as long as your intention is with it, right. Versus That other old conditioning was like I have to punish my body and

Val:

get it to conform. Yeah. And I talk about that a lot and I'll say it again, that a big seminal moment in your relationship with your body is the first time you realize that exercise helps reduce your anxiety mm-hmm or makes you sleep better. Right. Like, or whatever it is, totally lifts your mood.

Kat:

I love swimming so much. Like swimming is my, my top tier thing. Someday I'm like a house with a pool. It's

Val:

my life, all my life goals.

Kat:

like I live in this marginalized body and it doesn't move freely in a lot of spaces, I move really freely in the water and I float without any effort, which is just so fucking fun. It feels like a superpower where literally I can't drown. Yeah. Yes

Val:

yes. I did notice that the other day I came from a pickle ball and my body was just like,

Kat:

was

Val:

it was talking to me. Right. And I got in the water and I was floating a bit and I was Mm. But I hadn't really thought about even just pickleball, if you're new to the podcasts and get used to pick a ball. But I didn't really think about it getting me back into my body actually. And also, I mean, I guess I wanna say shout out to all of our, like chronic pain warriors right out there. Because being connected to my body, it means that I'm feeling the pain. Yeah. And, you know, with chronic pain, it's a lot of constant pain that maybe isn't really giving us new information. Right. So there's also I guess a cost, at least for me cuz I actually do struggle with disconnect for my body. Right. So I'm not thinking about my pain, right. To like connecting actually that's a question on the dissociation scale. Yeah. Can you. Not feel pain for long periods of Yeah. We could also recognize that dissociating or disconnecting from your body sometimes is a good coping mechanism Well, okay. It's something we all do it. So we all do it. We can

Kat:

it. like the fact that we have the ability to do it means that it's, it's probably good that we can do it

Val:

Right Oh, I mean, for trauma, it's probably saved a lot of people's lives of course. But we all do it. If you like, don't remember driving the rest of the way home that's that's a form of dissociation Oh, I

Kat:

thought that was like glitch in the matrix

Val:

whenever that happened. ah,

Kat:

you're like, fuck, where am I?

Val:

Yeah.

Kat:

I do that kind of a

Val:

a lot actually. Okay. So now that you like are sort of getting regular information with your body mm-hmm can you tell us, walk us through how do you start for someone who's never done done it before? Explain your process of how you check in with your body. Like how do you start that dialogue?

Kat:

Yeah. Okay. So here's actually I'm gonna lead us all in a little meditation. cool So Yeah, you can participate if you want to. No pressure, you know, if it okay. But I want you to think about, yeah. Do what Val's doing. Take a nice deep breath, if you would like to. If you're not driving, maybe even close your eyes. How wonderful if you're driving, don't close your eyes.

Val:

So put your Tesla on.

Kat:

Self-driving so take a nice deep breath in, and then I want you to imagine a time in your life, like an actual lived experience, where you just felt really, really at ease and really peaceful and maybe something pleasant, like maybe it was a fun time, but your body, for sure, you felt expansive, you felt happy, you felt free, you felt It doesn't have to be every single one of those things. Just any of those things, any of those positive feeling? Now you're there in that memory. Now I want you to do a body scan in the memory. And so just, I want you to note, like, are your, are shoulders relaxed? Are they down? Do you feel like you have some space in your chest to breathe? Is your head light versus feeling heavy? Like what are sensations you feel, you know, how do your legs feel? How do your hands feel? How do your arms And So you just take that in for a moment. And I want you to just like lock in those thoughts, those, the sensations you're able to detect in your physical body, in a good memory, right. And a positive experience. And so you just make little notes. This is what it feels like Okay. Another little cleansing breath. Now we're gonna do something. This one's less fun people, but now we're gonna do it again. We're gonna remember a time where you felt some anxiety. You're not gonna bring up a high trauma memory. You're gonna bring up a memory where It was stressful. It was not good. It was not your favorite. There's some things you can't control. Maybe there's some negative self-talk in the mix, but now I want you to do that body scan again. And I want you to notice what it feels like in your head, in your So we're gonna note that, right? That's what it feels like when I'm doing something that is maybe out of Right? So now we have an opportunity to go out with friends. That we love. They're great. But we're also aware that we've been run down and we're exhausted and we're trying to decide, do I stay home and do like self-care things? Or like just binge watch TV? Or do I go out with friends? Right. And so here's what you do, you just imagine. Okay. I'm gonna go out with my friends and you picture yourself there and you see how it feels in your body. Does it feel expansive? Does it feel like that first exercise we did? Does it feel kind of free? Does it feel light? Does it feel like, oh, this is nourishing me or does it make you feel tight? Like the second thing we did, oh, I just don't wanna be in public. I don't wanna be out in the world and you have those other sensations. So if we can start doing this for more and more decisions that we

Val:

make,

Kat:

just being aware, like. Our bodies are really, really smart. Right. So I could see that scenario where you're like, yeah, I need to go and spend some time and connect with humans. That's gonna feel so good in Mm-hmm and then also this scenario could be like, oh, Nope, it's not this week for me. I really need some alone time. These other stresses in my life have depleted me, I'm depleted. I'm gonna do nothing. And that's, that's the thing that's making me feel most expansive and

Val:

Is it such an important skill if you think about it, right? Yeah. I wish we had that, sound effect, like the, eh, the break screeching. Yeah. Because how many times have we said yes to something? Well, you haven't done it in a while cause

Kat:

it's perfect

Val:

this

Kat:

No,

Val:

I I'll say yes to my husband about something and then we're doing it. And I'm

Kat:

dread

Val:

dread. I'm like, or yeah, I'm in a bad mood. Like I should't have said yes in the, the first place. Right. So when we're able to do this right, and get all the data from our bodies, We could be more safe for the humans around us too. Right.

Kat:

And then to get to live with less and less dread dread is its own kind of suffering. I have very little space for

Val:

dread anymore.

Kat:

And then once in a while, and again, like there's all the nuance here, right. It's not so black and white. So there are sometimes things that I have to do what I want to do, cuz it serves this other greater goal. Yeah. Right. I had some adulting to do and some executive function stuff just yesterday and I was feeling so much anxiety about it and it was a little unfamiliar and it was just. Stuff on the computer. And sometimes I can be a little insecure about my skillset and navigating all that. So I called up my friend and I was like, Hey, can we do some body doubling mm-hmm right. Because when I did the little exercise of how can I do this thing? This making me feel dread and anxiety. Oh, well, if I add in my friend, even just on a FaceTime call, their presence like calms

Val:

down and.

Kat:

then I can Do the thing yeah. That I don't want to do. But I want The conclusion of it. I want it to be

Val:

done. Right. Ooh. Yeah. So you, that's a couple things, right. So we've talked about co-regulation right. That an awesome skill to know when you need another person to help you exactly regulate your emotions. We do it all the time. Also body doubling is something very helpful for people with ADHD. Yeah. Or any of us where if you have another person around Yeah. Funny enough. We talk about intuition. Yeah. I used to tell the admin at my job, are you done with your work? Can you please just come sit in here? Right. I, I used to tell her I'm a social doer. Yes. Which is fucking body. I beat a body doubler. I know my other friend says like, oh, can we parallel play yes. At a coffee shop to just get our

Kat:

work done.

Val:

Exactly. So it's very helpful for everyone. Yeah. And then the other skill you mentioned you coin the phrase should energy. Oh, should when we do things that have, should it is a collapsing energy. Yeah.

Kat:

It creates dread.

Val:

if we're doing things just out of a should. Right. But there are things that we should do. Yeah. Or that we want to do. Like you said, the bigger wants so connecting. So even though it is probably still like a, I should pay my taxes. Right, right. Like, like it's still technically a should getting out of the should energy. Right. And then connecting to the greater goal Find the want, because the want is expanding energy Yeah. So connect to the want. Yeah. So you used the lot good for you. The

Kat:

more. Oh, yay. That gave me chills I'm so fucking smart.

Val:

are you really smart? You're really smart This is why we

Kat:

that Thanks for bringing that one back around That's so good.

Val:

I just wanna do full disclosure for the for our listeners. I, I could not picture anything while you're doing that kinda editing

Kat:

it

Val:

I have a really hard time, but I came to you once. And I said, oh cat, should I do this thing? Or is it just too much? Should I wait instead of giving your opinion, which I love you, didn't like go in your head and well, you were just like, look, picture yourself doing it. Yeah. And I think that time you were like, imagine if you were falling off a cliff, are you skydiving? Like, is it invigorating or is it terror? Like oh, right. So think of yourself doing this thing. And then you said, picture yourself not doing it. Right. And for me it was an exhilarating leap, not a dreadful leap. So I'm like, okay, thanks. Yeah, I'm gonna do it. that was really helpful.

Kat:

I'm so

Val:

Yes Thank you. You're amazing. But I think I do it, where I'm like, okay, I was planning to go to pick a ball and there's sometimes where I'm like, oh, I know I'm exhausted. I should just go. Right. Because I will feel better than just being in my body. There's that? You talked about that angsty energy. Yeah. Right. Where like it's pain making you tired, not exhaustion, tired. That's a whole nother thing. And then there's sometimes where I'm like, oh, I'm feeling really tired. Maybe I should stay home. And then I go anyway, and then I was like, no, this is not turning out. Good. And so I kind of go back to, okay, how was that feeling? Right. That maybe I could have decided the no mm-hmm and so you sometimes just have to do it. Yeah. And then go, oh, okay. Right.

Kat:

Yeah. We're all learning as we go. Right.

Val:

I mean it's an experiment.

Kat:

Yeah. It's all an experiment. So yeah. At trial and error, all the stuff, make it playful, turn it into a game, all the things. Yeah. Yeah just be nice to yourself in the process. You're just, trying to get some new skills. You're like, Hey body, wanna talk? tell me what you need body.

Val:

Oh. And then being able to speak it out to other people. Yeah. I had some fear. Oh. About getting into, we had a kayak and So we have a lot of neighbors that could see us. I think because I, I was feeling a little clumsy my body was in a lot of pain. They're all gonna be watching me, like get in the kayak and fall in the

Kat:

water

Val:

or something Sure Right. And my husband tries to get the real, like hard line, just do it Baba. And I was starting to feel it in my body Uhhuh. And I'm like, no, no, no. I think that the more pressure you give me, the more it's gonna make it worse, then I'm gonna cry. oh. And then he's like, Okay. Okay. I won't do that. Okay. so then, okay. And I don't remember the rest, but I just remember that as I actually said out loud. Yeah. What was going on in my

Kat:

body? Yes.

Val:

Yes Yeah. It wasn't just that I was acting weird. I talked about that last time. When, you don't let things out, then you're just doing weird stuff in your relationships. Yeah. I was able to tell him what was going on. Totally. And then he was able to adjust. And, and I got in and I didn't fall in the water. yeah.

Kat:

Okay. So it is part of my regular vocabulary. Now I notice I say it a lot. I'm like, oh, that feels good in my body. That does not feel good in my body. these are just skills. They become second nature. You don't have to think about it after a while it's like driving or riding a bike. You don't have to, it's not a conscious thought all the time.

Val:

can I tell yesterday that little behind the scenes? I sure. I FaceTimed you. Yeah. And then you're like, I'm really cranky right now. Yeah. And then you're like, what about if for an episode it's like, everything is terrible and we just rant and Rav about how terrible everything is. And then we somehow laugh about it at the end and, and right away, I was like, that

Kat:

does sound

Val:

sound good, but it didn't feel

Kat:

in my mind right

Val:

body was like why

Kat:

don't laugh

Val:

That does not feel good in my body. Oh my gosh. So that's just coming up regularly Me too Oh,

Kat:

it's such a good way to articulate boundaries with each other too. Right? I mean, cuz what are you gonna contradict? How it feels in my body, you know? And so when you have that knowledge, you have access to clear boundaries. You have access to a yes and a no it's powerful.

Val:

It's it's powerful. I know. Oh, it's so

Kat:

good. It's so

Val:

Oh, this episode is so good. Mm-hmm So we're at the end. Yay. I like the end.

Kat:

But this is where we get to talk about. What's

Val:

Yeah. Cuz we've been talking about what we've been learning, all the stuff we've learned, what we've been shifting around so much shifting around. Yeah. What's bringing us pleasure.

Kat:

Yeah. What's bringing you

Val:

You know, what's funny. Okay. What's bringing me pleasure is I'm allowing myself to buy products, Uhhuh that I really need. Yeah. That I use every day and will make me feel more comfortable.

Kat:

Cool.

Val:

like new pickleball socks. Like a new ice pack. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That that's not split open oh yeah. Yeah, like new pickleball shorts that feel really good. Like a hug. And some other stuff but it was just like, no, I'm using these things every day. Yeah. Oh, I was thinking about, it's probably time to change bras. Yeah. I still enjoy a bra.

Kat:

that makes one

Val:

us we kinda got, got away from them during the pandemic. Yeah. Oh, new underwear. That just feel good. Of

Kat:

Of course. That's care of your physical body. Isn't it beautiful It is

Val:

Aw, well it's beautiful. What is bring you pleasure

Kat:

sitting here with you

Val:

laughing. Oh, that was your answer last

Kat:

time. Was it really? Yeah Jesus Christ. I don't have anything else right now. this podcast is what I'm holding onto for dear fucking life's

Val:

I wish could see she's holding onto her mic stand. Like it's a, buoy in the ocean. Oh man. Well, how insensitive me? I'm

Kat:

I'm

Val:

sorry. How insensitive? I'm like no, pick something else. Like this is all I got

Kat:

well, okay. I will add to it then, but honestly, I have a close knit group of friends that are brilliant at humans. You get to be, you're obviously one of those dear darling close friends, but I have people in my life that I can be my full, authentic self with that. I can tell all of my stories too. Like you weren't the only person that was privy to the fact that I was in a really bad mood yesterday It was a yucky, yucky mood. And so that does bring a lot of pleasure and comfort, right. So

Val:

getting all that love so funny She's still holding on really tight to her

Kat:

I'm like Ugh It's a hard season of my life. I've cultivated safety inside myself. And I, like I said, I'm still human, but like, it feels really nice when that also manifest as like attracting humans that love me and I get to be all the way me. So just people that I get to be all the way myself with and that feels really good. It brings me lots of pleasure. that

Val:

all right, KA until next time.

Kat:

Oh, I love you. We love you guys. Thank you.

Val:

you and listeners for being

Kat:

on this journey with us. Thank you. Good luck on your body

Val:

journey. Tell us, tell us all your body journey. Yeah. Okay Tell us about

Kat:

We. Bye.

Val:

Bye.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Valerie DiLuggo

Host
Head Shot

Kat Max

Co-host