3 Questions with Kat & Val

Collective Energy & Communal Effervescence

• Season 1 • Episode 16

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Val:

You're listening to three questions with Katten, Val I'm Kat and I'm bow. We've been friends for over 20 years. Thousands of therapists and cats and artists. We're both great talkers. And we're both XFN delicacy who used to pastor gay. Now we both have chronic illnesses. We think we're fucking hilarious. LA.

Kat:

LA

Val:

Checking check. We better fucking

Kat:

fucking work, fucking work fucker.

Val:

I know

Kat:

Hi, Val, that's our sound check. Everybody. It turns out producing your own podcast is

Val:

podcast is, oh my gosh. Garage band is like a little brother, like unchecking buttons. When you check one box, it likes to just fuck with me. So that was like the third try. You heard there friends. Oh, we thought that'd be a good laugh to start off today. Oh, when

Kat:

Oh my gosh. We need a good laugh. Don't we Val?

Val:

you do that, don't we remember? Ah, we do, because currently it feels like

Kat:

I know

Val:

we're on the Titanic.

Kat:

yes. I saw a meme. I saw a meme that said something like, our country and then like, it's the Titanic. And then the next shot is like, the people playing the music and it's like meme artists.

Val:

That's true. Thank you. Meme artists for keeping us

Kat:

Been giving us. Go see shit

Val:

Oh shit. I hope the meme artists are the ones that are gonna go down with this ship though. Someone throw a life raft for the me artists jump on the door with rose. You know how it was like there was room for Jack on the door.

Kat:

room for Jack

Val:

Forget Jack. Fuck Jack. Save the me artist. yeah, I love the ones that are like, this year, 4th of July is, canceled cuz we have no more independence. I know it's not, it's not good if Reverend humor that's our brand. Don't don't go soft on me. Cat. Come on. This is not the time to go soft on me.

Kat:

so funny. Okay. I won't go. Oh.

Val:

Ah,

Kat:

So obviously darling humans, we're referencing the fact that, some rise have been removed from people with uteruses and that fucking sucks and it feels terrifying. It does.

Val:

does feel terrifying. It really does. That one is obviously a giant one. And then also at the same time, there were other, rulings of the court about states not being able to make their own laws about gun control. And, you know, that's terrifying.

Kat:

right.

Val:

And even the border patrol, let's not even go there yet. And just even what Roe V Wade meant To other rulings. I found this great slide deck from the NAACP about like how many other times Roe V. Wade was referenced to support people's privacy and choice. I don't think this is fully understood. Right. And just sort of the, maybe the threats yeah. Of other people's rights, the LGBT community, other people's rights being come for

Kat:

secure, honestly. Yeah. So anyway, darling humans, we thought maybe we'll try to start the episode with some laughter because we're just, we're looking at each other and we're just grappling with, you know This, the state of the world we live in. And, and also this dogged determination to like, not given to despair, right? Yes. Feel our feelings, but then not given to despair. And how the fuck do we do that? How the fuck do we do that? Man.

Val:

are you looking at me for that shit? Well, again, listeners, if you're in the future, this is the time in which, you know, we're recording this and actually this episode. We recorded ahead of time. Yeah. About this collective energy and, shifts in your life every day shifts into pleasure and joy and tapping into the collective and then also maybe how to make some big shifts. If you're feeling. Ah, what's moving around for you. And I mean, maybe it's a good time for this episode to come out in the sense, we talk a lot about joy and, and these are different coping tools. Yeah.

Kat:

And it's interesting. it's not like an easy thing to articulate what we're actually discussing. We're we're talking about like personal growth and transformation, right. And the role of community and communal experiences in that.

Val:

And I think that there's no better time to remember that. Because it's easy or it can be easy maybe to think that this doesn't affect me as much, or this one affects me, but this one doesn't. And I think what affects one of us affects all

Kat:

us. Right, right. Yeah. And

Val:

And we really need to remember that, and you and I were checking in on each other and I, I sort of sent you something funny and then you're like, well how are you doing? And I'm like, oh, I realize. I had times of mourning. and then it was like, okay, to not fall into despair. I need to get back into the moment.

Kat:

Yeah.

Val:

And find the joy in the moment. But it's is this weird shifting in and out of like,

Kat:

kind of like a dance

Val:

it is. And then it's like, well, where did you catch me? you know, wait a minute. We're all grieving. Oh shit. Yeah. I was just living my life for a minute, you know, and that can feel Dison it too. Right. Or like, should I keep grieving? You know? But then I think we've. Resting. Yeah. Pleasure relationships are just vital for us to survive.

Kat:

Yeah. You know, and I was listening to a therapist doing like a TikTok and they were talking about like the state of the world and like, yeah, you can meet with me for therapy. But that's not gonna get rid of the amount of fear and anxiety that exists. Completely because of the world we live in. Right. And so there's this strange, both, and that all of us as human beings are facing. Right. Yeah. Right. It's this really interesting, like push, pull. Yeah. And dance. When I was I lived in Montana for a little while and I learned how to do country swing dance. And then I also did a little bit of like swing dancing when that was the thing in the odds, remember, remember when swing

Val:

dancing.

Kat:

was like all big again. And so. The push pull of a swing dance. Right? You got do people together and you also learn how to like move with each other's body. It's just so fascinating, but like, literally that feels like the best kind of word picture or image for how to. Stay afloat right now, how to be present with what we're feeling, but then how to check in enough that we're not towed under by it. Right. I think for me personally, is really tempting to sort of isolate and slip into despair because of the heavy collective energy I just can feel. Sure.

Val:

Well, and I think that there's talk amongst therapists about how it's harmful, if we're just really individualizing things, right. If it's like, well, I'm feeling really sad. Okay. Well, let's talk about these tools of how for you to not feel sad or like let's get rid of this anxiety like that undertone of Hey, you should be able to get yourself out of this anxiety, but seeing people inside of. Them right. Systemic racism or all the isms and just the world we live in today, that just seems to be so heavy, you'll actually do harm to a person by expecting them as the individual. That it's their problem. Right. acknowledging this is the world we live

Kat:

Yeah. The context is so fucking important, right?

Val:

yeah, for sure.

Kat:

so my group of queer friends, we all, you know, felt all of our feelings as best we could on, Friday when the news hit. But then by Saturday we had all planned this pretty epic pool party. It's also pride weekend in the bay area this weekend. And So a lot of people were doing pride events and things. And but yeah, we spent the day enjoying substances and sunshine in the pool at like a backyard rented pool again. Yes. And it was that thing where we were co-regulating together. We were like enjoying each other's company and we were enjoying just taking a break from how heavy the world felt, you know, Man. It was such a gift and it's, it's that kind of shit that like helps me stay afloat.

Val:

that I helped me stay. now I was suing you before you did take your top off in the

Kat:

the

Val:

right?

Kat:

I did not take my, nobody took their jobs off. Oh my God. Actually, though, this is hilarious. It's the broad daylight, right? And it's like, we've rented someone else's backyard. There are humans that are strangers to us inside their home. That's how you rent. You rented backyard. It's called swiftly. Yeah, But they don't, they don't vacate their home just because you're using their backyard. Right. Wow. So anyway,

Val:

I would vacate

Kat:

someone at the party was like, oh my God, I wanna do like a night swim, maybe naked. And they're like, definitely naked. And so we're like, oh yeah, well, that's gonna be like, we have to rent a whole home. Right. And then like have the backyard pool, because that would be just not okay to have people inside. And then like everyone's getting naked in their pool. Oh my God.

Val:

That's an extra charge.

Kat:

that cuz I'm like, I was like, no, Val. And I was like, oh

Val:

Actually. We did plan

Kat:

about that.

Val:

another time.

Kat:

You know, me too well, Val. Oh, friends.

Val:

I do. Oh friends. Well, we wanna encourage you to just take the time you need to take care of yourself, your loved ones. I think, there's time for resting. There's time to put it aside. And there's a tide for action donation activism, all of those things, if we're a part of the collective, what are we going to do? And also I think remembering. The most marginalized, right? how it's affecting, the most marginalized among us, us,

Kat:

process. And I've heard some interesting talks about how we engage in activism. And this is something I I've really taken in for myself. It's that when I feel triggered by the state, The world I am more effective. I am more capable, affecting change when I first sort of meet with myself and what comes up for me, mm-hmm then what happens is, is my ability to be present and to be not in a triggered state then whatever action step I'm feeling attracted to, or is shiny to me, like this is the yes. In my body. Mm-hmm I just have more to give to that versus when we are reactionary, cuz we're triggered it's very triggering information. The state of the world is traumatic. Right? I just wanna say to us, let's just spend a little time tending our

Val:

yeah, no, that's good.

Kat:

selves and do that in loving community. All right, well, what are we gonna do? What's in front of us to do, and then, yeah. So tend yourself, put the, put the mask on yourself first.

Val:

Sure. As you're talking, I'm thinking about our shared Christian background about evangelizing and how there was no tending to yourself. Or like, it always felt like you had to do it. And there was only one way to do it. With no care for yourself. And so I think we can go into activism. I think it's important for us to act and be active in tearing down systems of oppression. There are some people that. In your face activism. That's how their body's wired. Yeah. They're that protector that's their thing. Right. And then people find other ways to be helpful and use their gifts. Yeah. It's like, I also wanna encourage everyone, like it's okay. It's okay. To find a way that feels like it's moving in the way. Obviously we challenge ourselves and we get out of our comfort zone, but. There's lots of different ways to be involved and to do action,

Kat:

right? Yeah. And, oh, that's so good. Val, thank you for showing that

Val:

Oh, well sure. No. So we want you to enjoy and we hope that this episode is helpful. We talk about collective effervescence. Ooh. Are you officially Your curiosity and we'll be right back. Are you looking for love? But you're ready to give up on dating it's. So hopper and reset yourself for love with me in my six week coaching program together, we'll prepare you for dating with new clarity, intention, and passion to create the life and love you desire.

Kat:

It's like you're a

Val:

dating doula. Exactly. I'm here to guide you on your journey to love. Grab your spot and get more info at. So this is love.club. Yay.

Kat:

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Val:

All right. So we're gonna jump into this topic

Kat:

Yay.

Val:

I know that we've been talking amongst ourselves about doing sort of a Woohoo episode.

Kat:

I know I really do identify as a Woohoo bitch. Like it's on all my dating profiles. there's only two. I only have two,

Val:

Yes. Like you have gone from our, Pentecostal evangelical spirit filled background in church. Right. And you've, you've been checking on some wild shit. Woo stuff. I've DIPP my toes. Yeah. Yes. Eclectic, eclectic. Woo bitch. I've dipped my toes. Just, just a tiny bit. Yeah.

Kat:

Wait, wait, wait, I wanna say earlier today you're like, is mercury retrograde over yet?

Val:

I was like,

Kat:

I was like, yes, Val, it ended a while ago.

Val:

like, things are still feeling pretty wild what's happening. But yes, I was like, oh yeah, three or four planets, like blocking each other in a row. Yeah. That's gotta affect

Kat:

something.

Val:

Listen. I was one over, maybe more by science. I think science helps me get into the boob bitch because I had some nurse friends that said more births happen

Kat:

right.

Val:

at the full moon. And I was like, why? And they're like, whoa, cuz there's water in your womb. And the tides are affected.

Kat:

Yeah. I like what modern science sort of like

Val:

Val, right, right. What, what we've known. So we wanted to talk about that in the intersection of we've been talking about big topics. Yeah. Grief, breakups,

Kat:

right? Our relationship with our body fucking

Val:

narratives about our bodies. Yeah. Oh, that seems

Kat:

and deconstructing from like, not just religious systems, but like our cultural

Val:

that

Kat:

that don't serve us. Yes. How do we make these shifts? Val? These are big shifts.

Val:

what I'm asking you. Stop fighting me.

Kat:

what I'm asking you. Stop together. I got some ideas.

Val:

Yes you do. That's what I'm saying. We're just drawing that out of you. Yeah. you and I have had some conversations recently about needing that shift needing to shake something up, needing, a big push, like a breakthrough. Ooh. Another word would be

Kat:

breakthrough breakthrough. of

Val:

need a breakthrough, a shift, moving things around.

Kat:

Definitely.

Val:

So, how do you make that happen? And I know, when you were, at sort of one stage of the breakup process, you were like, I want some help, but I don't want a therapist. and I didn't take events, but you're like, I want a supernatural

Kat:

right Well that was still I was so desperate to try to understand, that experience, cuz it felt so profound. It felt very. Spiritual the, connection I had with that person. So if it felt to like divine while I was experiencing it, I needed like, a divine doula to help me make the transition. If that's done, then I need I don't know. I needed to put it in a spiritual framework for me too, as part of my

Val:

Sure. Oh, that makes sense. No, I think that's awesome. And I'm also gonna be a little bit of a brat. I truly was not offended when you said that, but then later you're like, I've been listening to the podcast and the things that you said were really helping me. I'm like, yep.

Kat:

know. Okay. This is totally a side note. This goes back over to

Val:

Yeah,

Kat:

Yeah but I will say, in the most intense parts of the grief I was feeling around the breakup, I was listening to us talk to each other in our podcast over and over and over again, cuz it found it so comforting. Amazing. Yeah. And it was funny cuz it was just like, you're alone in your work on something and, and it's easy to get real sad about stuff. And then there's. Possibility too, that some of it's the ADHD where I need, kind of high stimuli. Like if I'm like cooking in the kitchen Mm-hmm It doesn't feel good if there's not some sort of noise. And sometimes I need more than just music

Val:

yes, no, I'm married to a human jukebox there's not one second of the day that there's not

Kat:

Right, And so you and I, and our podcasts were like helping me co-regulate all that time. So, yeah.

Val:

that's so beautiful and actually kind of meta, like I

Kat:

I know

Val:

it's kind of what we're talking about. You actually using the podcast for helping

Kat:

That's

Val:

That's amazing. Thank you for sharing that. I love it. I love

Kat:

it. so, but then one of the other things I did when I was aware that there was a lot of grief coming with the end of that relationship. And so I was the recipient of an online. and I was like, oh my God. It was like someone advertising this, communal, like breathwork experience Yes. And, Valerie it, I showed you pictures of it. It looked exactly like our Pentecostal days where like you're having this. Big, very high emotionally charged sort of alter call experience. Yeah. Right. And you can feel like there's like this tangible, like energy in the air. Yes. And everyone is fucking crying. Everyone's crying

Val:

even testimonials you're like, it really is like church there's testimonies after.

Kat:

So this was a a non-religious version of that. Oh my God, I know exactly what that is. And it's funny. The facilitator of it was this person from Poland. And I was like, I don't give a shit about them. I'm not even gonna read their fucking bio. I know exactly what that is. And I'm gonna fucking go to

Val:

their fucking bio I know exactly what that is You actually said to me, I don't care if it's a cult or

Kat:

not, I'm not

Val:

I'm not gonna get sucked in. Cause the divine, wait, wait, wait. Okay. This is, this is a deep dive. If you guys have listened to every single episode, the divine doesn't give a fuck about dogma.

Kat:

It doesn't. Nope. I stay really far away from dogma. I will pick and choose anything that resonates in all these kinds of spiritual modalities and world religions, all that shit, but no dogma ever again. Fuck you, motherfucker. No gurus.

Val:

Sure Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kat:

I was like, no, I can see it. And I think, our experience with living in charismatic, worldview and paradigm, there really are people that like embody a certain kind of charisma and energy. You see it with performers too. Like, they're aware that when they're like singing in front of stadiums, there's this collective energy and they can fucking move it around. I also, I was just listening to like, oh my God. My biggest celebrity crush of all I fucking am in love with that You know what actually I realized I had like the biggest crush on them before I even knew it was queer. this is like a crush crush. What the fuck,

Val:

I do remember you saying that actually. Yeah.

Kat:

I do remember saying that. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so Hannah GA me has a audio book. 10 steps to. And so I was listening to this and, she was talking about Recognizing that she had control over this huge room. She had

Val:

energy control

Kat:

and then she even talked about how, like, she doesn't necessarily wanna have control over that many people. It was just, just the fascinating. I was like, I know exactly what that

Val:

is. Yeah

Kat:

Yeah. So when I was in pain and grief, I could tell there's like big emotion there. I want to have a communal catharsis experience. Yeah. And it was advertised directly to me and it was happening the very next week. And I was like, yes, that signed me up. I'm going So

Val:

can I, just aside before you tell us about your experience yeah. You were trying to get me to go,

Kat:

Oh yeah. I was like, let's do this together for the podcast though.

Val:

oh yeah to get the podcast though And I was so down for like three questions with cat and Val goes on an experience. Oh yeah, yeah. But I had to work and then I was like, well, do I shift everything around? And I was looking for an answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you're like, did you watch the video? I sent you of the testimonials Immediately in my body knew it did not feel good when I listened to those testimonials, I don't know if I'm getting triggered from the past. It's just too much, but I'm like, I got my answer cat it's no, I don't know I'm being triggered and you're of course you're like, that's okay. But

Kat:

I went all by myself, like. Place in downtown Oakland. And like everyone brings their like yoga mat to basically land the floor in this large venue. And then. What they did is they led you through breathe this way. And, the body's kind of amazing in this way. Like, there are lots of way to get into a deep meditative space, right? A subconscious space. And then you and I have experienced this because of our Pentecostal days. We had experience this called being like slain in the spirit mm-hmm Sometimes someone would pray for you. And there would be like a surge of energy.

Val:

Mm.

Kat:

And whether we were conditioned to expect it to happen or whether it was really just this authentic reaction or response to this energy surge, like it would knock you down. Yeah. And then, then you'd have like people that were like prepared to they'd be behind you, ready to catch you and lay you down gently. And then all the modesty police are like, Here's a, blanket And so my experience of that. It was always really a positive experience. I would be like on the ground and I would feel if I really wanted to move my body, I probably could, but it would like take a lot of effort, but I would feel myself sort of in this sublime space where everything in the world felt okay. There was a deep sense of stillness and and unconditional love and acceptance. Mm. There was always like praise and worship music kind of in the background. And it was just this really fucking cool space. Mm. And I've had experiences, in more recent years where I can achieve that kind of. Space with just meditation, but like, there's something more powerful when you're doing it in a collective. And so I'm telling you when I saw this thing, I was like that and see again, we listened to our bodies. My body was like, yes. And it was such a cleared loud. Yes. and I think it's fascinating. It was a clear loud. No for you. Right. And just that again, like there's space for both of that. Right, right. Because everything is not for everybody. Right. And that's totally fine. the event ended up going really well. I didn't have any expectations except for, I knew that it would be an opportunity to have. The synergy of multiple people kind of doing their own private

Val:

Mm

Kat:

We're all, we're in a collective environment. So like this one person is leading it and saying, breathe these ways, but you can hear other people having like big emotional responses and there's music playing pretty loud. And then they're, they're leading you, so you don't have to engage your, your thinking mind too much. And again, it's just breathing. There's they're like they have some sort of formula for it, I guess. You know? And I was like, I don't care. Like I'm, here for the ride. Right. Yeah. But it, I did end up having a really profound experience and it really. Like move a lot of, grief through me in sort of a, fast expedient kind of way. And it doesn't mean that I was immediately over the breakup or anything. I still had lots of things to process, but it was sure it was really a cathartic event.

Val:

That's so good Yeah Yeah. Well, we wanted to talk a little bit more too today about just the power of, that collective mm-hmm And then when you add in the spiritual too, right? Like in the churches that, I was involved in, we would do these sort of healing weekends. Totally. Right. why couldn't you just. Have one night. Why are retreats so powerful or, popular, like getting together, setting aside the time, right. Spending the

Kat:

There's the intentions in two right the intentions, So it's the collective, there is something about like the synergy of multiple people with this shared intention. That's really, really powerful.

Val:

All these different spiritual things. I had heard some teaching even while I was still in the church about how the charisma, the charismatic gifts were given. To everyone. Yeah. Not just, you know, the quote Christians or so even being inside Christianity, believing that these gifts are out there everywhere. Right, right So I already had that in my worldview.

Kat:

Sure.

Val:

Right. And then you start seeing it right. So you were talking about just this feeling that overcomes you in the spirit. Right? Some people had visions, right. Or just can see pictures. Get words or even a psychic ability of like, this is what I see in the future for you. Right. Or just words of wisdom or

Kat:

Or an intuitive, there's a lot of like quote, secular spiritual words that we had all these things in the church that I'm like, oh yeah, like I'm a spiritual, intuitive. Absolutely. I'm a fucking mystic. Absolutely. Right. I don't super identify as a psychic because none of the stuff that I the mysticism I play in isn't really about, it's not future focused. Yeah. But yeah, we still have all those

Val:

What's really funny is like, you've gone past the future. You're like in another dimension.

Kat:

my God. That's true.

Val:

That's true. You're in a different construct.

Kat:

I don't, it's hard to live in this world anymore. it sounds so dumb, but it's really true.

Val:

That's I think we make a good

Kat:

Care

Val:

cause I can get into that, but like I think I still, my Fe feed are firmly

Kat:

I'm just I, I'm not grounded at all.

Val:

no, I think it's amazing. It's so good. Yeah. We also wanted to talk about. Well in that is like this communal catharsis, right? Yeah. Right. And I think that event you went to, I think I'm sort of private. Yeah. Still a prudish if you've listened to other

Kat:

episodes.

Val:

So I think like you, you described it exactly perfectly that it is a communal space where you go to do private

Kat:

very private, deep shit. People are wailing and crying,

Val:

are wailing crying.

Kat:

I love that shit.

Val:

I think I like to do my private work in the private and I get this sort of like secondhand embarrassment. It's like, I know like if someone's wheeling so much, I. Oh, my gosh.

Kat:

that's funny. I'm not embarrassed by shit

Val:

I know you're not,

Kat:

Oh my God. I was definitely loud and very demonstrative in my like little individual space. And at the end, This lady came up to me and I felt like she was being kind of condescending, cuz I was like, I'm good. But she was like, you having an experience. Huh? And I was like, mm-hmm I'm glad I came. cuz she thought it was the first time. And I was like, listen, you don't know anything fucking about me I'm like, I don't need your fucking hug. I got what I needed. It sounds so terrible. Like, she just looks at me as making some assumptions and I was like, nah,

Val:

don't know me lady

Kat:

I don't even live in your fucking dimension

Val:

the different social time

Kat:

construct.

Val:

Oh my gosh. And you know, like the catharsis. Just explaining why, like we do public memorials, Or come together. Or feel like you have to go visit a place that

Kat:

something happens Okay So we're getting the bigger topic here is like these shifts that we need to make. So sometimes it can be around like a hard thing or grief or mourn, but also it's public community experience of like joy and pleasure. Right. So we're talking about, The experience of going out. Dancing and, and the energy of like, everyone is dancing and moving together. Like you have parties here and like we're all dancing. And that is this shared experience that I think does create shifts. Right. And it can be like, oh my God, there's joy in the world. Oh my God. I can, this is what my life can look like,

Val:

like the week is heavy and then you can shake it

Kat:

off You can shake it off. That's why they invented happy hour. I'm sure of it. I'm sure

Val:

I was introduced to a term that I was like, oh, I

Kat:

can't Oh, it's such a good term. Thought about this. It's. good

Val:

Collective effervescence is the

Kat:

term Ooh

Val:

I coined back in 1912 by like a

Kat:

Yeah Effervescence is the best word

Val:

I know. But Adam Grant, who has written some great books he wrote an article about it during the pandemic about what we're missing is this collective

Kat:

Right, right,

Val:

right, right. Yeah So, so it could be. in the every day, coming together as synergy yeah. Coming together for like a, purpose with strangers. Right. So when you kind of get in sync with some of the stranger on the dance floor, or you're all at Memorial or. At a sporting

Kat:

Yes.

Val:

Oh, the power of these things when I go with my husband, he's originally from Brazil and of course it is SA Romania. The world stops because of it. The stock market in Brazil

Kat:

That's amazing on

Val:

the days that Brazil plays in the world cup every four years, I'm like, guys, get it together. they shut down ATMs. I don't

Kat:

Oh my God. ATMs.

Val:

Yeah. Yeah,

Kat:

yeah.

Val:

Every the, the street, your grandma's

Kat:

Wow

Val:

for the team. Every everybody takes off work. Yeah. It is a moving experience and I find it fascinating because it's all for a sport. We actually schedule vacations around world cup every four years because America doesn't really get into the party. There's no effervescence. There's there's very little collective effervescence around world cup. And my poor husband, he needs that. Yeah, but I love it too. We go to other countries and if their country is in it, everybody's in the streets. The cafes set up, TVs outside grandmas are yelling at the screen. Everyone's cheering. And it feels so

Kat:

good right yeah. I don't think we should poo like, oh, it's just a game. Like, that's the thing that you and I keep saying, like turning the hard things in. Into a game or, looking for play. Yeah. Right. And I think it is beautiful to like allow yourself to get swept up in something that's bigger than yourself.

Val:

Oh a hundred percent and that's why it's so big. Right. And of course we got it in church and a lot of, religious events, but. It is such a powerful thing. And we did, we did lose a lot of that in COVID

Kat:

and, yeah

Val:

There was a stat I wanted to read, research has found that people laugh five times as often when they're with others as when they're alone, even exchanging pleasantries with a stranger on a train is enough to spark joy. I live for that shit. Yeah. I live for making a stranger smile. Right. Joking. Right. And I, I don't think it's ultraism, I want it. I want it cuz it feels good in my buddy. I wanna talk to the guy at trader Joe's. I wanna laugh with a stranger about

Kat:

something. Absolutely Yeah. And that's proof of your like outgoing nature too, right? Mm-hmm but also for our introverted friends and I'm kind of mixture of both anyway, so maybe it's not a complete stranger or it's a limited amount of time with the strangers cuz there can be a draining. Experience too, but like sure. the fact that like an experience that we have in any kind of group can like heighten the experience and allow space for these shifts for this elevation. Mm. Yeah.

Val:

I I'm sure you've been at a concert. I mean, definitely happened at bigger church events, but, you know, just concerts yeah. Feeling like that energy rushing through your body. When I was going through just the worst of the infertility sadness we'd be at church and during worship, I, it was so overwhelming. I would cry so hard. I have to leave cuz it was just kind of embarrassing. To be crying so hard. And I didn't know if that was a spiritual connection, but then one day it was the Grammy's and John legend, he just sang two

Kat:

Yeah.

Val:

I started to tear up. Yeah. I mean, could have hormones have played a part? Yes. But then we were at some stupid amusement park watching some play kind of thing. And the music came on. I don't know what this music was. Yeah. I started crying. I started crying. Yeah. I did not let my husband see that. Oh, it would've freaked him

Kat:

out. He wasn't

Val:

yet but I think now I can understand it as this collective energy. Just being very sensitive to that and being moved by that

Kat:

music Yeah And music is moving like, oh yeah, for sure. I'll cry over music too. Yeah.

Val:

Well. And you talked about this collective energy in this being aware of being able to move around the energy. Yeah. I love worship for 10 years

Kat:

Totally great Yeah.

Val:

Yeah. Every week, right? 10

Kat:

years. you know what that feels

Val:

feels like. I sound like a jackass say this, but like, I know how to work a crowd,

Kat:

it's not a jackass thing. It's just the truth. Right? See, that's old churchy shit because

Val:

is.

Kat:

You're a fucking awesome human You can control the, the energy of the room.

Val:

Well, I had 10 years of that and like people who are MCs at events and stuff, right. So that's a long time to do something. I was not manipulative right. In any conscious way. It wasn't like ha. This, and also there was a spiritual realm, I think in this mixture of music and this spiritual realm and knowing what music does to us. Right. As

Kat:

and like the journey that you have a sense of where you need to take this collective, that's the coolness of it. Yeah. Yes. And I would feel a lot when I would be preaching. I feel sometimes in different settings where I'm, talking and I can feel these things sort of shift and it's really cool. You're tapped into something. Right. Mm-hmm, something a little bigger than yourself. Mm-hmm and you're like, oh, I'm aware that in this moment, I'm the one directing the ship and it's a very awesome experience. It fills me with awe. Yeah. You know, luckily for you and I, we were kind of altruistic by nature and so we're not using this to like, to our own ends. Yeah. But like to help foster an

Val:

experience. Yeah. Did you do Al alter calls as a part of your yeah, so right. The piano music comes on and you're feeling like what's supposed to happen in

Kat:

like laying hands and praying

Val:

Oh yeah.

Kat:

Oh yeah. We're like down there in there. Yeah. I mean, I have really positive memories of

Val:

that. Sure

Kat:

Sure. What's interesting is that, all this deconstruction from that worldview, there's so many things that I was like, I don't know how to understand this powerful thing I experienced though, you know? And then later. I was able to see some of the spiritual stuff come back without that rigid container of fundamentalism. That's why I say so often that yes, the divine does not care about dogma, right? Because all of that is irrelevant to the fact that we can tap in to an energy that's larger than just us and in my mind now, the way I understand it is that we're all connected. Right? So we're all part of consciousness. And so that feeling of being. in, a highly charged space environment. And sometimes just being a participant and sometimes being a facilitator mm-hmm you know and when I went to that breathwork thing, I knew I was just a participant and I didn't wanna talk to anybody. But then in the past, there's been these times where I've been the facilitator where you've been the facilitator and then you get to hold space for humans to have these cool fucking shifts.

Val:

Oh, and you need to have your own it's it's a really powerful experience. I mean, and it's probably why I stayed with it for so long. I mean, well, sometimes we were doing this once a month, but I think we ended up with quarterly holding these weekend experiences where, women would come together and I mean, they were getting heal. Of so much shit. Right. And just being able to shift the energy, move the energy, Kind of sense what may be going on, what people need to hear. And it's so interesting that you talk about moving around the collective energy. Because, you know, I used to sing a lot. And I just recently sang at my husband's birthday party and I wanted to get back into it and I was thinking about it. I don't have the best voice.

Kat:

Well, you have an incredible

Val:

Well, thank you. But it's not like, like I really enjoy. moving someone with a song. Yeah And I think that's what I'm really good at It's that I know how to move energy and make you feel something like I had neighbors were sitting in my living room crying,

Kat:

know Yeah.

Val:

Because I got a lot of feedback and I think the feedback was just that like, oh, you helped me get to that

Kat:

place. Mm-hmm Yeah, that's a good feeling. I just wanna say about music too. And like, so there's, I'm hearing you say that there's multiple things at play here, right? So there's just the power of like singing your heart out is a great experience, right? Mm-hmm and then getting to do it with, other people or performing for other people and watching the energy move around and kind of steer that. But then also. When we think about things that you can do practically to have some of these experiences like joining a choir is like a really good one. There's all these studies that

Val:

talk Yes The health benefits.

Kat:

Yes. Are the

Val:

Are singing fucking choirs,

Kat:

music Oh I

Val:

Well I did

Kat:

that I've done it too recently.

Val:

Totally. No, it's, it's really

Kat:

powerful. it's synergy, it's synergy, right? It's it's music, which is its own wonderful, incredible thing. And then you have like a collective shared experience with other people for a shared intention, right. And it's a beautiful soul lifting spirit lifting

Val:

him well. So what's interesting in this article, they're saying that some research shows that maybe find, trying to find your bliss, your happiness, your joy by yourself might lead to more feelings of loneliness Sure. And I mean, in right that's in general, not like the regular introvert guys leave me alone. I gotta recharge my battery. Yeah, that is. Actually do you know, what's good for your gut health? I started to have a lot of IBS. Yeah. And they're like Garling and loud singing is really good for your gut health. gonna start getting an choir again?

Kat:

Yeah.

Val:

Again. Yeah. Body being so wise, yeah, but here I wanna read this quote. I finally found it. Okay. Before COVID research showed that more than three quarters of people found collective effervescent, at least once a week, 75% of people and almost 30% experienced it at least once a day. Wow. They felt it when they sang in courses, ran in races, quieter moments of connection at coffee shops in yoga classes.

Kat:

Did you know that even a movie can accomplish that for you? Right? Like going to a movie theater.

Val:

Yeah. I balled at the end of one movie. Yeah. Of course, it was about racial injustice and tragedy. Yeah. And there was one clip at the end. Right. And one older black lady kind of yelped or, how old, like, kind of in pain. Yeah. I getting

Kat:

chills now

Val:

talking about it. I just started weeping because it's that click. Of experience. Yeah. Ah, it also goes into just witnessing and holding space for someone else's pain, the magic of therapy or any other healing or your friendships that feel healing is when you're seen yeah. Shame. We know shame can exist once it's been shared right. It's been exposed. Yeah. Right.

Kat:

So beautiful. Okay. So last episode, we're talking about like how to like rebuild your relationship with your body, you know, mm-hmm and so like just recently I was invited to like specifically a fat queer pool party where the people facilitating, the party. They, did the thing on swiftly, you know, like you can rent a backyard pool Oh wow Yeah. So these two queer people who live in fat bodies were like, yeah, I just wanna like swim around in the pool with other people who also identify as fat. And again, it's like they created a space and a container for a fucking amazing shared experience of just joy and just pleasure. Safety of you could be wherever you were on your body journey, but you are looking at other people around you that are like feeling good on their body, right. In non-normative bodies, right? Yeah. So, or, you know what we would call like straight size or typically appealing bodies, right? Whatever. Like the mainstream culture says is acceptable. You've got all of us running around. You know, two pieces and like, and people are queer and like so you've got like folks that have like recently had top surgery and, you know, I mean, not so recent that they can't swim, but like, you know what I'm saying? Like non-normative and it's just safe and everyone's having a fucking, great time. Oh my God. That's a beautiful collective experience. Yes Communal effervescence.

Val:

Dear listeners. Where are you finding that? Communal effervescence. Can we be in the 30% that experiences that at least once a

Kat:

day Right Or

Val:

in a small way,

Kat:

put it on your radar as a thing to be

Val:

Let's start. Yeah.

Kat:

Being open. I mean, do you wanna put together a thing, like take all your close friends and do a thing or like host a thing or like also maybe something as simple as writing it down in, in a journal or something like, okay, I'm gonna put this out in the world or on the universe of like, oh, I'm recognizing that I need a shift in my relationship with my body. I wanna. Space with other humans. That's very specifically liberation, Body positive, whatever words you like, Yeah. And maybe it's another thing. Maybe it's grief yeah. so I can have the assistance of synergy from other humans in whatever shift is going on or whatever shift I'm looking

Val:

help Yeah. Well, and, I mean, I'm no scientist but you know, Adam's bouncing off each other. Yeah. And like the energy that motion creates and all of us together. Right. Mm-hmm I, you even said that to me, was it last night where you're like, okay, your energy is kind of helping me pull myself up a little bit out of a bad mood or whatever was Right. So I think even prioritizing making space, also the intention there's research around this, that. If you are aware that the thing you're doing is good for you and, and health promoting, you get way more health benefits is so wild. So knowing like, no, my choir practice or, my softball team, my pickle ball. Yeah. Let me say this first, before I move on, because of course I got a mention pickleball This is an article I found somewhere pickleball has the unifying feel good spirit of family game night. True. The potential for a Zumba class is caloric burn true. And the vitamin D of a day at the beach. And I've always asked, like, why does it feel so fucking good? It's communal effervesce painful It's communal effervescence.

Kat:

Totally I've got something coming up. I'm super excited about. It's called queers of the Fatosphere and so it's like a live performance. Ooh. Of like fat queer performers, just comedy and, I know a couple of the performers, but I'm just so excited and it's, in San Francisco and, you know, I don't go out to the city that often. But yeah, just I'm gonna share space with other people that like use some of the same identifiers that I use to be like, entertained, to be like supporting people that I care about and believe in and just like them expressing themselves creatively. And I can't wait.

Val:

Yeah. Exciting. Communal effervescence,

Kat:

communal EFSS since Oh man. oh,

Val:

I love

Kat:

it. Yeah. In service to whatever is going on in our life, you know, like again, Last week. I feel like we did a pretty good job of explaining, like we gotta engage in our own journey. Right. And so much of this work is inside Yeah. But the both and is, Hey, we actually need one another and we don't just need one or two close people in our lives. We need the collective. We need the groups of humans sometimes.

Val:

a hundred percent. And that's some of the critique of like doing your individual work. Yeah. We do need to be in service to each other and looking out for one another. Right. But from that same article I wrote down that emotions are inherently social weaving through society and

Kat:

Wow Yeah. Okay.

Val:

Wow. Yeah. And I think there, it really is right. A social. Component to emotions. We have some emotions in isolation of course, but a lot of the emotions we're even having in isolation come from our interactions with other people. Right. Sure. And when we have them, right, we wanna share them with

Kat:

people So like your laughter is doubled and your, sorrow is, halved. Right? What's that phrase,

Val:

Oh, I don't know,

Kat:

but I Yeah.

Val:

Ooh that's

Kat:

beautiful. I know, This whole conversation is bringing me a lot of pleasure though.

Val:

was that a hint? Yes. Ah, so good.

Kat:

Thank you for suggesting this topic.

Val:

Dear friends We hope that maybe something sparked like an everyday practice or every week practice, or if you're looking for a breakthrough you're needing. To shift something. Yeah. Look to a communal space. Yeah. Or some sort of spiritual tap into that

Kat:

And we wanna be really clear, like it literally can be anything, and here's the other thing to piggyback on last week's episode? Try to be aware in your body, when an invitation crosses your path just be like, oh, how's it feel in my body to imagine going to

Val:

this? Mm.

Kat:

mm-hmm and then sometimes we'll get like a loud yes. Or a loud, no, but sometimes it's in that middle. Wrong and that's okay. But take a little risk here and there, like try this thing out, like try something new, like,

Val:

Yeah. Use your imagination. Call your BFFs to be like, come on. Let's think of a ritual or something we can do together or Yeah. Even, like they can be fun. Like I follow somebody that they're like, we're in Iceland for my, girlfriend's divorce

Kat:

trip. Oh my gosh Yeah

Val:

gotten divorced do that. Right. So there's so many different things that can help you shift Yeah It's been so good to be with you today,

Kat:

Yay

Val:

So to close this out, you know, we've been talking a lot about what we've been learning, how we've been shifting, right. What's bringing you pleasure

Kat:

Well, I mean, the pool party that I got to go to, I think is still just like just a bright fucking highlight. It feels really good to share space with people who are also comfortable in their skin. Yeah. And and so you're not like the odd one out cuz you live in a non-normative body. It was fun. Got all that vitamin D we laughed so much. Maybe there were some substances it is a good fucking day. how about you Val?

Val:

You know, I was still really thinking about the few parties we've thrown and just I actually think I'm getting pleasure about thinking about maybe some of the events we're gonna

Kat:

in the future. Mm. Yeah. Some great ideas percolating

Val:

yeah. Sort of dreaming about the future mm-hmm When you know, it can do good or help people. Right. That's what really feels really amazing. So as we're talking, I'm kind of thinking back to some of these things. I am getting excited kind of getting back to that and using those

Kat:

Uhhuh

Val:

to. Change. What did you say before? Like

Kat:

Well, I talk about like limiting suffering. There's less suffering in the whole world.

Val:

less suffering in the whole wide world.

Kat:

Yes. Yeah. Yay. I love you, Kim. I love you Val Bye.

People on this episode

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Valerie DiLuggo

Host
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Kat Max

Co-host