3 Questions with Kat & Val

ADHD Superpowers & Kryptonite

• Season 1 • Episode 18

Share episode

Oh, the highs and lows of being a person who is neurodivergent! Or loving someone who is… This week Kat and Val laugh their way through a discussion about the superpowers that come with having AHDH as well as the major challenges/ Kryptonite. Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria (RSD), ranks high as a challenge and our hosts share all about what has helped them navigate RDS in all their interpersonal relationships. As always, this episode is a fun, passionate, informative and potentially helpful ride!

*This podcast is for entertainment purposes only

Find us on Instagram:
Kat and Val Podcast

Val's offerings:
So This is Love Club
Reset Yourself for Love Program
Instagram So This is Love Club

Kat's offerings:
Fat Liberation Art -Fat Mystic Etsy Shop
Instagram Fat_Mystic_Art

Additional resources/definitions referenced in most episodes:
Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria
Jill Johnson Young- grief talker
Five Stages of Grief
Intuitive eating.org
NAAFA National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance
Tell Me I'm Fat - This American Life
Prentis Hemphill
Vitamin D gummies!!!!!!
Adrienne Maree Brown
Pleasure Activism; The Politics of Feeling Good
Come as You Are: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life
Book by Emily Nagoski
Attached - Book by Amir Levine and Rachel S. F. Heller
Understanding Dopamine: Love Hormones And The Brain
Enneagram
The Four Tendencies
Myers Briggs Personality Profiles
Highly Sensitive People (HSP)
Fat Liberation Movement
Lipedema
Exvangelical/deconstructing from Christianity
ADHD

Val:

You're listening to three questions with Katten, Val I'm Kat and I'm bow. We've been friends for over 20 years. Thousands of therapists and cats and artists. We're both great talkers. And we're both XFN delicacy who used to pastor gay. Now we both have chronic illnesses. We think we're fucking hilarious.

Kat:

Hi.

Val:

hello friends.

Kat:

Val, what did you just say to me?

Val:

You asked me, does that sound good? And I said, I'm not sure. I know what you're saying, which I didn't was funny.

Kat:

but I guess, well, because

Val:

the way I said is what

Kat:

the way I said it, oh my gosh, we're sitting here and we're trying our best you guys, you know, but we're human too. We're having like an off fucking day

Val:

what the fuck is happening.

Kat:

that was telling me, like trying to access vocabulary. Words is hard. We like to show up with you all being happy and fun, having fun stories. Yeah. We love being here with you all, but yeah, we're just human too. We're doing our best. Some days are hard. Yeah, And then sometimes maybe we get dressed up on a hard day. Do you ever do that? I almost never do that. But I did get cute for you today.

Val:

You sure did.

Kat:

I know I did. I'm wearing this like one piece, like what did we decide? This is called Fran. Oh yeah. I don't usually like Palm things, but this is like so green and so Palmy it's like green and black and it's like a one piece sort of summary,

Val:

jumpsuit. Oh, jump It's a jumpsuit

Kat:

rayon. It's really breezy. I like Okay. But I was talking shit because it's annoying, right? Because, so this is, it comes in the size. It fits on my body. Mm-hmm but there's no zippers. There's no snaps. And so they did a great job sizing it to get over my leg. Very generous belly and hips. thank you. But then like the top part you're supposed to like stand into it. Like the, the neck bit of it is not fucking big enough for my widest part of my body. And so it's just, it's a fucking oversight is what it is, but I'm mad at them. I'm like, Hey fuckers. So I had to cut the straps and then tie them. So I have two knots, like a little kid. Remember those little kid outfits that you'd, you have little knots on'em babies. I know, but they were stretching enough. You get in and out of'em with the knots tied and not me. I go pee. I gotta like undo a knot, undo a knot, take the whole thing down. It's a pain in the

Val:

Well, jumpsuits. Yes. I was telling you about this, me, my SAR that was like, yeah, everyone will compliment you on a jumpsuit, but then when you have to go to the bathroom, you're just naked in alone with your choices. Yeah. You're alone in a bathroom stall with your choices.

Kat:

That's true. It's so true. But it jumpsuit looks amazing. I love a

Val:

all funny games until you're you're like practically naked and then people from other countries are like, why do your bathrooms have like

Kat:

pizza

Val:

like, it's not a thing in other countries. Yes. But I do. I do love a good jumpsuit. I was wearing one the other night and.

Kat:

yeah,

Val:

looking pretty good in it.

Kat:

I bet.

Val:

mean, and you're hot. Well,

Kat:

husband

Val:

and I had a date cuz he was leaving again. and had this, outfit on that actually a friend like gifted him. So he's like sending pictures in the group chat and

Kat:

Oh yeah. I saw this picture. We'll have to post it. He looked very

Val:

he's got his Ray vans on, he was looking hot. he's handsome and

Kat:

he like

Val:

like cleans up, well, He was peacocking. If you have listened to some of the earlier episodes and okay. So we're

Kat:

at there

Val:

all of a sudden, you know, if we're in the bay area, when the sun goes down or goes behind a tree, it's like a 20 to 30 degree drop. So all of a sudden he's got this like preppy sweater. Oh, he's

Kat:

like I know. Yeah. He looks expensive.

Val:

it was

Kat:

expensive.

Val:

he, stands up at dinner and we're like eating on the street at this like Italian bistro, all these like older couples around everyone just And he, he stands up and he says oh, this is the moment everyone's been waiting for. For me to put my sweater on and I was like, what? He's like, yeah, everyone's waiting for me to put this

Kat:

sweater

Val:

on. And I was like, no one cares about your sweater. and I was telling my friend one of my best friends Rai's twin, who of course is also a peacock, cuz they're twins. She was like, amiga why are you being so mean to him? Like, why couldn't you just let him think everybody wanted here's what? And I'm like, I always sound like the asshole, but he had already asked me like 15 times actually he made me tell him cuz he's like, am I cute? Am I cute? Tell me, am I cute? Like 15 times already? So I'm like, yes, you are cute. You're hot. Look at you. Wow. Like, like I'm giving him everything. Meanwhile, I had to ask him, but what about me? See. That was her response

Kat:

too. Yeah

Val:

you about that in a minute. But I was like, look I said I was concerned. Was he having a break with reality? Nobody wanted to see, They don't care about his preppies. I was concerned. Come back to reality. No one cares about your fucking sweater. That's the hyperfocus. That's why people with ADHD. Sometimes they think their assholes, everything is about themselves. Like their hyperfocus is like, this outfit is so

Kat:

amazing.

Val:

Everybody must be looking at me so funny

Kat:

That's so

Val:

and thinking of my other. So,

Kat:

Oh my

Val:

my friend was like, okay, Aika I get it. But she, she had the same reaction you did. She's like, well, where are the pictures of you? And I'm like, he took one, but he's really not a good photographer. I had to ask him, but what about tell me about how good I look. I had just done my hair. My eyes look good.

Kat:

clean up real good.

Val:

like, look at me if he wasn't my brother, I'd be like, look, I can get you some other

Kat:

dude

Val:

You need to be out with some men who treat you better.

Kat:

men or queer people. the

Val:

spectrum of the gender, the gender spectrum,

Kat:

Other human beings would be like, damn Val damn

Val:

speaking of other human beings. So we're walking down the street after dinner, holding hands and this lovely older woman stops. Takes off her mask and is like, are you guys models?

Kat:

And you know

Val:

and you know how, like someone just stops you on the street. You kind of are like, do I need to just keep walking? Is this a trap? I don't know. right, Like, I don't know is, so I just, you know, you just kind of, is this a

Kat:

trap

Val:

Oh, that's so sad. Our society is like that right now. I was like, help. Is this a trip? So I kind of didn't fully stop, but then of course she's like, Hey, are you guys, models? And then I was like, oh, I guess, I guess I have to

Kat:

And I was like oh guess I have to stop. I guess I have to engage with this stranger who thinks I'm a fucking model.

Val:

Oh, she said, oh, you guys are so beautiful. And then I was like, thank you so much. And the moral of the story is rap was right. Everyone does sweater. OK.

Kat:

good job Murphy. Oh my God. Okay. Okay. So you're saying that's maybe an ADHD thing. Right? And so I was like, oh fuck. I have to confess because I don't necessarily think people are like waiting for my costume change yesterday Yeah. But I do think that everybody finds me charming was like, I am delighting everybody.

Val:

I think it's beautiful and wonderful. And like, as long as it's rooted in some sort of reality, I don't see a problem with it.

Kat:

well, the truth is I have met people who do not find me charming. Oh. But I'm always shocked. I'm always shocked. It is

Val:

Shocked. that's really funny. Well, you know, what's funny. I always say about rap that he will not accept that people don't like

Kat:

it unless you piss

Val:

off and then it's fuck you.

Kat:

you're

Val:

dead to me dead to me. Right? If not, I'm like, no, no, he doesn't give you a you will like

Kat:

it Right right right

Val:

in charge of

Kat:

that. he's in charge of that. He's So that's

Val:

Okay. So his twin, was like, oh, amiga. Yeah. Is that an ADHD thing to like, just be thinking that about yourself? So she just asked me just like you

Kat:

asked me. Yeah.

Val:

I was like, well, I think this focus on self. I think the hyperfocus, I think it's like blinders, but with mirrors they're mirrored blinders, okay, so now I'm talking about three people in my life with ADHD that are very focused on their appearance. our parents and how fucking charming they

Kat:

So

Val:

I don't know. we told you this was not for educational purposes, just for entertainment. This is not like a set up research. You know, I don't have my blind controls here.

Kat:

but

Val:

I wanna say dear lovely humans, whether you are a peacock with ADHD or just another lovely bird with ADHD

Kat:

another lovely

Val:

And someone has called you selfish and that's hurt and caused you shame. There's lots of symptoms that maybe kind of make it seem like, but oh, I read these beautiful things that said the

Kat:

the

Val:

the focus on the self in ADHD does not Deno, selfishness, like not thinking of others. Right. I think it's just a hyper focus on self and then like oh yeah. there's someone else here. I find myself saying that to my husband a lot, excuse me. Hello? I'm here too. Hello?

Kat:

Oh my God. Well, yeah, no, I hear all that too. And maybe it's because like, if you have ADHD, you start to recognize the norm. neurotypical, and you feel like the odd one out, you're sort of more aware of cause you're aware of differences. Yeah. And that could be why you, there was a little more like and then I love the puzzle trying to

Val:

Mm-hmm

Kat:

mm-hmm and I do like myself. I think I'm charming as fuck.

Val:

fuck. You are charming. You are charming. Do we, is it safe to talk about that as a, as a, as a coping skill for ADHD?

Kat:

Oh, well, I mean, is a coping me it's it's a coping skill for like my family of origin.

Val:

Yeah. you know what I mean? Like, sure

Kat:

it ADHD or is it trauma? We've

Val:

drama or we've talked about how, like being a person in a larger

Kat:

Yeah.

Val:

To be more acceptable being the good fatty, like I sent you something once that's like, okay. Did I inherit this, charming personality from my family of origin? Or did I develop this? Because I knew that I wasn't the peacock, actually Amy poll, the comedian actress. She, wrote about that in her book.

Kat:

I read her book, her audio. Book's so good. By the way it's called. Yes, please. Yeah.

Val:

Yes. Oh, good memory. So lots of times,

Kat:

cuz I hyper focus on shit. Sometimes she reads me to sleep at night, talking about SNL days. It's delightful.

Val:

valley,

Kat:

that's long time I know go

Val:

to go to sleep. Cat has our podcast at AV and repeat,

Kat:

I don't go to sleep, listening to us cuz I don't fall asleep to it. Cause I'm so interesting.

Val:

you're charming yourself. You fucker

Kat:

and I think you're wise. Isn't interesting too. So.

Val:

What about charming?

Kat:

Yes. Charming. And so funny, you even know how funny you were.

Val:

I'm like cat. Do other people think I'm as funny as I think I am like, maybe not everyone. I mean, not for everybody

Kat:

oh, cuz you're like in touch with reality. No grandiose self-assessment here.

Val:

You're like in touch with reality. Yes, exactly. Thank you. Ooh, that's interesting. Yeah, no grandiosity. I'm staying away from grandiosity, cuz that, that gets you in trouble or maybe it doesn't. Maybe it makes you famous. I don't know.

Kat:

Right. Who fuck knows. We dunno. We're just

Val:

we dunno. Okay. There, there are some things that I think do like that. I think they easily distracted. Right. Or getting back to why, why does it seem like a person with ADHD comes across that way or the interrupting. Yeah. You are actually very good at that. I don't feel like you interrupt me often.

Kat:

Oh, well my ex-husband, it would drive him crazy. He was like, you interrupt all the time and he, you know, remember you talk about like, it's the story you tell. Yeah. And like he was like a slow talker and so he'd be like trying to make an elaborate point. And he would like use a lot of my baseball analogies and I'd be like bored outta my mind. And my brain works really fast. And so I was like, you mean this? And he'd be mad at me. Yeah. So I do, but I think in most my relationships people understand it as like collaborative interrupting. Yeah. Where I'm not interrupting to change the subject. Yeah. I'm just like, oh yeah. And this I, yes. And I, yes. And like a

Val:

Yeah. Well I think you and RAI, my husband are on the same page where my stories take too

Kat:

him

Val:

Oh. Or my, responses, or he's like, I already know what you're

Kat:

gonna say.

Val:

I fuck you. No, you don't. Because your emotional tell just is not. I enough to understand me. You have no fucking idea what I'm gonna say,

Kat:

say see. And I'm sure that I do know, cuz I do have high emotional intelligence

Val:

Exactly. And I'm not telling him like long baseball analogies, but I'm like, sir, can I please finish a thought? And then with my chronic illness and the brain fog, I'm like, oh fuck you. Yeah. Oh fuck you like stop

Kat:

dressing me.

Val:

Oh. And then we have friends who also have it.

Kat:

Yeah. And, Yeah is,

Val:

it's just wild. I just watch it. But I started to say to him, sir,

Kat:

sir. You call him sir. Huh?

Val:

it's funny and sexy.

Kat:

no, I. I can hear it. I see your body language, sir. it's like, he's getting talked down to when you call him, sir. It's like the opposite.

Val:

It's like, yeah, like I'm giving you an extra amount of respect because fuck you. Excuse me, sir. Did the middle of my sentence. Interrupt the beginning of yours. Fuck you. So, so we do that. Again, ADHD, not wrong. Just

Kat:

different, just different.

Val:

why people interrupt. Yeah. Well number one, because your brain's going a mile a minute. Okay. I get that number two, you

Kat:

Oh that's a big one.

Val:

That is a big one. Number three.

Kat:

like leaning in. I'm like what's number three.

Val:

I was mad at my, I was just mad at my husband.

Kat:

I was like baited breath leaning in good number. OK. Number three. OK.

Val:

Number three is ADHD

Kat:

to

Val:

Show that you are listening. Oh. And understanding by telling your own story.

Kat:

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. that, well, what happens is, is the, the like synapsis in your brain, you're hearing information. You're like, it lights up this other thing. You're like, this is connected. Cuz like my brain is constantly making so many connections. Yeah, And then

Val:

it's going

Kat:

participate and you wanna be like, oh yeah. And this and this and this. And we're like, we're like sucking in all the information of the whole cosmos to be like, Ooh, is it all these fucking things? Look at all the nuance and the soup and the messiness I love it. It's how my brain works. I'm here for it.

Val:

but I did wanna tell you one

Kat:

tell me, please.

Val:

We're going back to ADHD and like this hyper focus. That is an ADHD, superpower. Yeah. And getting your needs met. The other day. We had company. And I thought that we were gonna be like showing them around like, ma I wish I could play pickleball, but probably not my husband comes in and says, Well no, they just wanna like, stay around the house and go local today. I'm like, I'm gonna go to pickleball. It starts soon. Right. He's like, okay, great. Just drop us off and we'll go get some breakfast somewhere. I'm like, okay, fine. And I felt like I was in the zone, get ready. And then I go into the car and then he comes out, oh, they're not ready yet. Just go to pick a ball. But we only have one car and I'm like, are you sure? He's like, yeah. Okay. And then I'm driving away. And I, I was like, oh, is this what hyperfocus feels

Kat:

like?

Val:

Not that I've never like really focused in on something, but I was like, oh, I got swept away with, this was my need. And then of course, cuz like I wanna be a good host and not make his friends feel bad. I'm like, was that okay? And then I was like, oh thanks babe. For like letting me go. And of course, cuz that's how he operates. He's like, oh yeah. I think you were here at our house when we were having a great time. There was even like a dance battle. Underwear was coming off. You'll have to go find that in whatever episode that was.

Kat:

Oh my God. That sounds way worse than it was. Okay. Keep going. You love to be shocking. And then like back away and pretend to be innocent. Fuck you, Val. Fuck you. Okay, go on. Motherfucker's like all of

Val:

all of a sudden Rai's like, gotta go. My F1 race was on, and went upstairs and ignored the company that we had until everyone was leaving. And he comes down by see ya. What a selfish, rude motherfucker. Oh. But it was just him. He loves F1 racing. He is a little bit of a hyperfocus on sports.

Kat:

But I didn't interpret that as rude. That didn't seem rude to

Val:

Well, you were high as

Kat:

Oh, yeah. that's funny.

Val:

Right. Not wrong, but different. Cuz I can't change that from out

Kat:

of him. Yeah

Val:

And so what he wants to go watch a race upstairs. Fine. Wow. Okay. Just focus on your own needs, dude. I

Kat:

yeah. Yeah. Yeah

Val:

Fine. But I had actually experienced it and just gonna kind of get swept up in this, and then oh yeah. There's people over So I don't know. I just felt like that was good. Mm-hmm because when I experienced

Kat:

Yeah

Val:

I think I can understand it

Kat:

better Sure Of course.

Val:

I was like, oh, okay. This is what it, this is what it feels like to just let everything fall and your needs are getting

Kat:

met. Yeah And trust that everything's gonna work out for the other people, but your job and your responsibilities, do the thing that you need to do and stay focused on like centering yourself. I do think it could be some relation to ADHD, but you add in the dynamic of like how we're socialized yeah. As fem people in the world. Yeah. And it's a very different thing. Sure. We're like constantly factoring in

Val:

of others.

Kat:

was just talking to my other friend, we're talking about like dating and stuff like this and that we're discussing, like they're trying to make plans for the holidays I realized as they were talking. Cause they were talking to a significant, other about maybe holiday plans. And I was like, oh my God, I do that all the time where I'm like, you tell me what your needs are. And I will orient myself around Right. As opposed to what you just experienced was like, no, I'm gonna like put my desire front. And then you guys can like organize yourselves around what I have centered. Right. Your desire to go do pickle ball. And I was like, whoa, that even for me, that feels a little uncomfortable. I don't do Unless I literally am by myself and then I will do that. You know what I mean? Well,

Val:

what was interesting was he was totally okay with it. Yeah. I think I probably didn't trust that he knew the implications cuz like we don't have another car. So like was either they gonna Uber? Are they gonna walk? Are they gonna just stay home they're adults. But I felt very uncomfortable the whole drive out of like our little area. Cause sometimes I, I think he says yes to things also. Maybe the ADHD, not like thinking ahead. Sure, sure. And I wanna make sure, I feel like it's kind of unfair right. Like his brain, isn't just naturally thinking of all the consequences of saying yes. And so I wanna help with that. And also he's way more flexible and adaptable

Kat:

the thing. I was just gonna say that when you have like I do like HES, like you just are like present in the moments adapt like

Val:

that's the second adaptable. Yeah. Okay. So, so superpowers, hyperfocus and adaptability, And the third one let's say is let's say, let's say we'll just

Kat:

we'll just make shit up. It was

Val:

No, yes. We're making this shit up. Let's say that it is the ability to move on. Let's something roll off your back. Oh, all the friends that I have that have ADHD. Yeah. Can really just let stuff roll off their back for the most part. Although. When RAI puts his heels in a forget

Kat:

I know, see that's the paradox though. Cuz they're like, oh, this is how we are. Oh, and there's the opposite too. Cuz it's a paradox.

Val:

cause it's a paradox. Yeah.

Kat:

something's will roll off your back. But then other things you're

Val:

you're dead to

Kat:

triggered rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria motherfucker.

Val:

Yes. Maybe that's like the kryptonite. I mean, cuz come on. I grew up in the wonder woman era. Love a good superhero analogy. I have a colleague that I was talking about the podcast and all the ADHD and I'm like, man, another person in my life with it. And he's like, you're just like assembling your and I'm like Avengers my husband forced me to watch every

Kat:

single

Val:

movie during, during the pandemic in, in the chronological order. Oh my gosh. Not the order that they

Kat:

came No I understand. I understand what you're saying It's

Val:

cuz your son probably did

Kat:

your son brought did your son. Yes. How did you know that? That literally that yes, yes. Yeah.

Val:

all the godfather movies too. I hadn't watched those. I so anyway, he's like, you're just assembling your Avengers. I'm like, I totally am. And maybe I love the intensity too. Yeah. So the kryptonite, I think is the rejection sensitivity, dysphoria,

Kat:

Oh, right. So you've ADHD, there's some superpowers, but there's still a kryptonite.

Val:

I think the kryptonite

Kat:

rejection sensitivity, dysphoria. And this is where you perceive or experience rejection. It can be real or perceived. Right. And that's where, what that means is you've just like decided they've been, you know, they're rejecting you, even if that's not their intent, but whether or not it's their intent, it hurts like a motherfucker.

Val:

Yes. Even the fear of it, I would say too, the anticipation of it. Yeah. Right. Real imagine or anticipated, right. Feared.

Kat:

Ooh, cryp tonight.

Val:

Cause then what does that bring? Shame? Yeah. Fucking

Kat:

Well, and then I think too. Yeah, fuck you. Shame. Yeah. But then again, human beings were built to be social, right? deeply reliant on one another And so to be rejected deeply painful.

Val:

It is. but then like, how do you defeat

Kat:

How do you it. Yeah.

Val:

about it with a, safe person, right? Yes. And then the shame dissipates, that's how you defeat shame.

Kat:

I think you're absolutely right. And I think in that process too, you can learn how to discharge shame yourself by offering yourself compassion.

Val:

Sure. Talking to yourself as you would a good friend, if this good friend told you the same thing.

Kat:

Absolutely. Or sometimes like as how you would talk to a child. Right. All those things. We all need to be nicer to

Val:

We do. And I think that we've talked in an earlier episode that shame makes us do kind of like weird things when we're feeling

Kat:

shame Oh

Val:

we act out or, the reactions that come, if you're feeling shame, like again, I think the way we're gendered, right? Oh, also I should probably say we haven't done this in a while, but like UHI my husband has given full consent to whatever, to whatever I wanna talk about. He trust me. So we'll have his, yes, I consent. Come on

Rafick:

Yes, I consent.

Kat:

Well, wait, let me tell you this, because I, you know, I continue to date people. And so like, I was meeting up with someone who I I'm, I often will like, oh, you should listen to podcast. You know, because like, that's how I'm get our numbers up

Val:

half of our listeners are no

Kat:

people I'm trying to go and dates with anyway. And they were like, am I gonna end up on the podcast? I was like,

Val:

really fuck around to find out, fuck around and find out

Kat:

we just people.

Val:

that's it people.

Kat:

You gotta go back to your story. What was your story about we've lost it. It

Val:

Oh, oh yeah, yeah. Yeah because for people who have been socialized as males, anger is an acceptable, probably one of the only acceptable emotions, and it's so wild that anger is the emotion that's allowed. Right. I mean, for all the reasons we could think about in the patriarchy, right. Because can be intimidating. Sure. It's it's not a vulnerable

Kat:

Yeah You're saying that shame and

Val:

And I think, well, the reaction, yeah. Like you think you're gonna be rejected or you're you're bad or you're not good. Ooh. Yeah. We had a fight about I was trying to be like stop using my brain so much. Right. That's something that in earlier episodes I talk about you borrow my brain all the time. You gotta do some of that yourself, right? Yes. And so that's a good shorthand for that. And so I was trying to get him an assistant, I mean, cuz he runs his own company. Right. And he was just acting super weird about it. Super weird. And then I was angry too. And he was mad like, like, like shutting me down. Like I don't want you in any part of this business anymore. I wish you would never do anything in this business again. Right. Good thing. He's never gonna

Kat:

this

Val:

to this, but it is exactly what happened. Get your own podcast, buddy, if you, wanna tell your side of this

Kat:

the story,

Val:

but I was like, whoa, where's this anger coming from? And he was so resistant

Kat:

to it Yeah.

Val:

We should do a whole episode on resistance.

Kat:

let's do that sometime.

Val:

and so I was like, damn, like you are getting so angry at me. And I think it was shame and I even said all the things KA, I'm like, look. I know this is harder for you. I know this is not your favorite thing, you know, the numbers, the books. I want to make your life easier, but I can no longer have this pressure on me to do it or think about it. And so I'm trying to get someone to hold that for you and to prompt you, that's what a good assistant would do anyway. And I think he had a lot of, shame about

Kat:

Well yeah, cuz you can validate, see, this is his thing. This is why we need to start with ourselves, I think. Right. Because you can validate someone's experiences and say, I understand this and this and this, but if that individual hasn't given themselves permission, to not be good at a, B and C mm-hmm then we feel shame. That's how that

Val:

Yeah Right It's true so,

Kat:

oh my gosh. Like I don't care if you're neurodiverse or not neurodiverse, all of us need to like learn how to be kind to

Val:

Yeah, that we're okay. We're okay. The way

Kat:

allowed to be exactly as you are,

Val:

so something that kind of was good about that was that maybe the anger made him hyperfocus. I don't know he's taking care of it, but then he is like oh I need to, I need to get some things for the bookkeeper. He just helped me. And I was like, oh you mean that thing that you never wanted me to be a part of again, Then it's

Kat:

did you give him shit about it or you let it slide? Oh,

Val:

Oh, I gave him shit this is how our relationship survives laughing. Oh, my making fun of stuff. And then the other day he's like, oh, PayPal's giving me a blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, you know, it would be really good in this situation. A virtual assistant. Oh gosh. I wish someone would've tried to got you one Oh,

Kat:

That's my favorite thing. When you talk about your relationship is how often you call him a fucker. yeah. Okay. Fucker. Oh, I love it. I love it. An

Val:

it's just so good. we even ended an episode once where I was like, yeah, cat, fuck you. And then you're like, yeah, keep it that way. oh my gosh. This is so good. Okay. I hate to stop us, but I think we probably should just cut to commercials real quick. Okay. Before this train goes off the rails, but thank you for listening and please support us. Are you looking for love? But you're ready to give up on dating it's. So hopper and reset yourself for love with me in my six week coaching program together, we'll prepare you for dating with new clarity, intention, and passion to create the life and love you desire.

Kat:

It's like you're a

Val:

dating doula. Exactly. I'm here to guide you on your journey to love. Grab your spot and get more info at. So this is love.club. Yay.

Kat:

Living in a culture that preaches conformity to narrow beauty standards. It feels really good to own art that celebrates honors and glorifies diverse bodies that mystic art uses photos from real people to create beautiful images that make all of us more free. Get yours today. Shop fat mystic on Etsy and follow that underscore mystic underscore art on Instagram.

Val:

We're back. Thank you so much for listening friends. We love you and thank you for coming around and rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria. Let's just talk a little bit more about that because it is a big thing to people with ADHD. And we just wanted to say, you

Kat:

any neurodiversity,

Val:

any neurodiversity, any neurodiversity

Kat:

people with autism really experiences acutely too.

Val:

Yes. Yes.

Kat:

Yeah. And there's overlap in those communities more and more people are discovering that. I thought I had ADHD, but oh, it looks like I Oh my favorite celebrity crush, you know Hannah Gatsby, she was first diagnosed with ADHD and then later, all of a sudden her life made so much sense because she was like, oh, actually it's autism. And so she has both. Yeah.

Val:

There's also overlap with ADHD and O C D obsessive compulsive. Of course. Yes. And I feel like that's, the ven diagram I'm I'm living into on this side

Kat:

Oh my God. One time RAI was like giving you shit about a thing on the table. And I was like, I could never live here. And sometimes I think, oh yeah, a RAI and I are similar. Right. We are some similarities, but not that I don't

Val:

don't have not that. one

Kat:

Not really, no. Leave a fucking piece of paper on the goddamn

Val:

It was a water glass. in my upstairs office. Nice. I got a lecture. Oh,

Kat:

Oh no. Okay. That's not

Val:

Oh, okay. I have a story. This is a good story, I'm noticing that people that are more of on the hyperactive side. Yeah. see a lot of, more of the O C D in that. And some people with ADHD, especially like, people socialize as boys, the disgusting rooms, like my brothers, my mom would come out with like, you know, moldy yes. Stuff under the bed Yeah. And like the messiness and all that. But then there's another section of people with ADHD that there's also this co-occurrence of OCD. Where I think RAI has that, and I'm trying to give him language, because I think that he's just like, well, you're a slob and this is the way things should go, which is funny. Cuz cat comes to my house all the time and

Kat:

it's so nice here. You guys it's like real, pretty, it's so pretty and nice and well decorated and always tidy, like occasionally a little lived in that's all a little I'm like we don't record in my fucking house.

Val:

like help me. I think that he is finally seeing that it might not be good, but there, and again, ADHD is a paradox and sometimes like people will say, I, I can't work at a messy desk. I have to clean it first. So people might think that that's procrastination, but I think also there is this sort of visual element of it. And if you do have some co-occurring O C D with it that, right. I saw a meme about like, How can I explain that the papers are too loud and, how you can't think, because there's an open jar. Right. That's something that does really, yeah. It does occur in, some instances in ADHD, so it is that paradox, right? Yeah. So, so we live with that, right. But there's also the strong emotion. Yeah. And giving people language for that. When we were first married, my husband's pretty laid back. And is he going until something really upsets him, but I, couldn't figure out, I was like, wait a minute. Why are you so angry right now? Did the edge? Or was he like kind of aggressive or whatever. with ADHD, there is this liability, I think

Kat:

Ooh, that's

Val:

I know, I think I'm using it right. I don't know. I'll take it out if I'm

Kat:

it real good

Val:

So this like up and down emotional, dysregulation is very common and we don't, realize that as well in ADHD. Again, we just think it's the anger outbursts of like the hyperactive male,

Kat:

right child. Sure. Yeah.

Val:

So one day I was getting ready for seeing my clients and I had a cup of coffee and I put my computer down. Didn't see my, coffee mug and I spilled a whole mug of coffee on a cream colored chair. I was so scared to tell my

Kat:

oh, Jesus

Val:

I know that

Kat:

that doesn't sound

Val:

good. No I know I'm just a highly sensitive person. So we gotta say that too. But I came out and I said, okay, I don't need you to be upset with me right now. I have to start with clients. I'm just telling you and I'm gonna take care of it myself. I made a mess, but I, I spilled coffee. he tried his best cat I noticed he was trying, but then I'm like, look, I know that you're like fuming, like, you know, like a cartoon, the spoke coming out of his nostrils and I'm like, look it'll come out. I'll work on it. And then went like, see, this is why I say no coffee in the bedroom, which is not true. And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He was trying to make up a a logical reason of why he was upset. And so finally I was like, dude, no, you bring me coffee in bed every morning. Like, no, we didn't say that there shouldn't

Kat:

be my God. Wow. Look. Yeah.

Val:

I, I touched him on the shoulders. I said, look, just having strong

Kat:

that.

Val:

that's all you're having strong

Kat:

emotions. Yeah. Yeah

Val:

I love you. And now go He is

Kat:

Wow. He is so lucky to be married to you. I'm telling you.

Val:

and so, and so I was like that was a big difference in our lives, of course, just to be able to say, Hey buddy, you're having strong emotions.

Kat:

yeah. Mm-hmm

Val:

yeah. Mm-hmm is that's it you're having a strong reaction to this but I think it's really important for people with ADHD. That's why I wanted to bring this up that this emotional dysregulation is a part of it so much so that some people get diagnosed, especially people who have been socialized as women, that they get diagnosed by their doctor with depression or anxiety instead of the ADHD, which is the underlying thing.

Kat:

I was diagnosed with depression. Yeah. Before. that. Yeah,

Val:

So you put on this emotional dysregulation, strong, reactions, right. And then this fear of being rejected. Right

Kat:

I don't know how they like got the data that like people that are neurodiverse experience this more acutely, you know, but like the fact that they've collected all this data that says, it's not just that they're sensitive. Right. Cuz you're a highly sensitive person. You understand what that's like, but it's, it's almost like the experience of being rejection is devastating to a different degree.

Val:

qualitatively. It hurt more. Yeah. In their Bodies.

Kat:

Whoa. Are you reading that?

Val:

I was just remembering

Kat:

it.

Val:

I was quickly trying to find the link to this one article. I

Kat:

like

Val:

but I can't find it.

Kat:

that's super funny.

Val:

That's my professional voice.

Kat:

Excellent. I love it. Yeah. So then we thought, okay, so learning about this was really helpful. Like when I knew that I had it, I just knew to be on the watch for it more. And then again, when it might show up in my interpersonal relationships, I was able to like acknowledge for myself. Oh, I think I might be experiencing rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria. Like it might not be them or what they said or whatever. Right. Now I need to do something with this, cuz it is, it's a big emotional charge, right? So this is where like my deep practice of self-compassion comes in and learning how to co-regulate with others. So like if I have access to others, right. I can say, Hey, this is what happened. I was sort of like dinged in this way is really ouchie. You know, can you hold space for me as I like, you know, process it or whatever it is I might need. Yeah. But if I don't have access to humans, then I'm gonna do like a self-compassion practice where I'm just acknowledging, like, this is very ouchie, this like super hurts. And then just validate that I'm feeling these things and that judge them and that give them a morality,

Val:

Mm-hmm that's wrong

Kat:

for feeling it, and then sometimes there's this thing where you have to let an emotion get as big as it needs to get. Yeah. So it can like move through. Right. And again, that's so tricky. What?

Val:

well, I, sorry. I'm like, trying to get the

Kat:

she's making a cute face. What?

Val:

I, so I have this little notebook when I'm doing therapy. When I come up with really well, what I think is funny stuff. Look exactly what you said. You gotta let it out. When it comes to emotions, be a drama queen. it ha you have to let it out. Yeah. Let it out, let

Kat:

go to

Val:

to its fullness. Right. So that it'll pass and dissipate, right?

Kat:

Yeah. Cause otherwise it gets just shoved down in your body. I mean, that's the truth. That's how bodies work. Like there's the book called the body keeps score. Mm-hmm and you know, there's a lot of good research around this now. Like when we don't let things move through, they get shoved

Val:

down mm-hmm

Kat:

socialized to do that,

Val:

which is, oh yeah.

Kat:

to So there's this really interesting book about like trauma and spiritual awakening. I read once. loved it so much. So basically they're saying that like animals when they're like being chased or whatever, right. Like the fight or flight happens to them. Yep. They'll like. Once the danger has dissipated. They'll like regulate they'll sort of shake and like, get that to move through their system and then they'll just be fine. And then like you think about a kid who experienced something really hard or traumatic, naturally we know how to do this thing where we like, sort of shaking your convulsing, right? Like people, humans naturally wanna do that. That's our mammal You naturally wanna. Physically, let the feeling get as big as it is and it'll move through and then your, your system will regulate itself. But what we all have been conditioned to do is to like shut at the fuck

Val:

off

Kat:

mm-hmm And so then your body doesn't get to complete the stress cycle. So it gets shoved down in somewhere. But if you can, you know, create spaces and relearn how to like, manifest. And so like this, this particular book again, it talks about trauma and awakening, but like, they teach you how to do some meditative exercises where you like allow parts of your body to shake and convulse. Mm. In order to complete a stress cycle, even from some old shit, sometimes isn't that interesting. The human body is

Val:

It is really interesting. And like, why? Oh, okay. Yeah, this is why KA all this stuff is kind of connected. And we, we just talk about all

Kat:

stuff. It's so fun,

Val:

but about how so stonewalling or emotional cutoff, the silent treatment is so it's, I've actually started to talk to clients about that. That is a form of abuse and how, oh, I was my friend goes, oh, you know, this movie X, Y, Z is really good. You should watch it. Yeah, I like rage watched it. Because my husband said he didn't wanna talk about it our fight anymore. And I just I know what else to do in that moment. And I knew I was gonna make it worse. that was the night that I was like, I guess this is the end. Like, yep. This is bullshit.

Kat:

You had a good run.

Val:

We had a good run. And the next morning I I knew too, and there's probably some horrible ones involved Right But I was like, I think I'm gonna feel different

Kat:

about

Val:

into the next morning. I'm like I love him so Oh my gosh. I love him so much. But I was mad cuz I get really upset if he's shutting it down and like if he had the emotional intelligence, sorry, babe. To like be like, I, can hear you're upset Right? This is one of those things in our relationship, the unsolvable problems. I love you. Let's both go to bed and talk about this in the morning. Right? I think that would've been enough. Just stayed up way past my bedtime finished this movie, but I kind of did gave myself what I needed. But I was so upset because he cut me off and

Kat:

I needed it out. Right

Val:

So when you're talking about that stress cycle. Yeah. I, I think we've seen how damaging the silent treatment and a lot of people with childhood trauma, I wonder why, like I'm having such a hard time now. Well, yeah, because all of your emotions were repressed or you weren't allowed to say them. That's why it feels good to be like, fuck you. Yeah. to my husband in like a joking way, that's not okay. What you did, or I'm mad at you right now. Or like you're being an asshole.

Kat:

Fuck you. Yeah. I think that's a beautiful thing when you can, like, in a almost light way, acknowledge that you're angry at each other, right? Yeah. That that's, I think that's beautiful. This is but

Val:

not the end of the world. And, but also like, please stop doing that.

Kat:

Okay. So you're talking about like, not stonewalling people, but also I wanna like say the flip side is if you will just say, I actually need some space on this issue. That's a big difference.

Val:

Right? Mm that's the next thing I need to teach him. Yes, babe. I just need some space. Yeah. Instead of shutting me off.

Kat:

Right. Because that's the thing like, yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome. That's for free. So, but when we we're in interpersonal relationships, you do sometimes need to put it down. That's why you completed your stress cycle that night by yourself and in the morning you feel better. Right. So sometimes we do need to come away from especially an unsolvable issue. Yes. And so, and then you need to be able to feel your feelings about it and they need to feel their feelings about it. Yeah. Like I had a disappointing thing happen kind of recently with this person that I'm, delighted by. And so I noticed that like I just needed a beat and then I think they probably needed a beat too. And then we were just able, to communicate it though, you know? I'm recognizing it because I had a recent, big breakup. When I feel myself getting closer to someone, I kind of keep, I keep hitting these walls mm-hmm, you know, and I'm like, Ooh, it's ouchie, oy ouchie to feel yourself getting closer to someone. And so it's okay that we need it to stop Right. So it's actually okay. That he's like, I gotta shut this down, but he also then would benefit from, to be kind and loving to these other humans in our life. You just acknowledge it out loud. Mm-hmm you're like, oh, I'm recognizing I'm gonna need to like be done with this particular issue. Mm-hmm probably for this amount of time. I'll circle back if I can. Yep. You're not stonewalling. You're not cutting off. You're not cutting off relationship. You are just saying this thing I need to be

Val:

Yep Can't talk about it tonight.

Kat:

In our interpersonal relationships, let's as humans, right? Like you all out there that are listening, we would love it. If you would not use a silent treatment, cuz it's abusive because it's an interruption to the bond that you have with the people in your life. And it, it hurts and it feels like a rejection. And then again, circling back to rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria, it can be like another trauma. Right. And you're trying to resolve whatever the issue is, but then like you increase the trauma. Right.

Val:

Mm-hmm I think, you know, we've talked about one time you came over and I, I was probably mad at everything and you were like, whoa, she mad at me and you just said, Hey, I know it's probably not it, but I just need to hear you say like, is this about me? Are you doing okay? Are you mad at me? And, I tell people, get your feelings on the outside. Yeah. Right. So just communicating even asking the question, knowing if I'm more susceptible to having that rejection sensitivity, Okay, maybe check in And I did find, can I read this quote cuz it's so good. Oh please. Are you okay? Let's see. Emotional dysregulation is when person feels an emotion so intensely that the emotion takes over and cannot be subdued with rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria person experiences, extreme emotional sensitivity and pain triggered by the perception real or imagined of being rejected, teased, criticized. That's a big one, a disappointment to important people in their lives. disappointed in themselves when they fail to attain their own standard or goals. The emotional pain, the person experiences is real and extreme. Right. And not easily dismissed. Yeah. The pain is so primitive and overwhelming that people struggle to find words to describe it Yeah. They can talk about its intensity, awful, terrible, catastrophic, and cannot find words to convey the quality of the emotional pain.

Kat:

Yeah. It's intense.

Val:

So some of these ways that people protect themselves from it. So this is really good information to know about yourself, right. They either become people pleasers, right. Or withdraw and abandon their own goals at a fear of failure. The other common weight of protecting ones, self is to give up trying anything new, unless one is assure of quick and complete

Kat:

Yeah, my, yeah. There's so many tos

Val:

top the notion of

Kat:

on that. About that one.

Val:

Oh yeah.

Kat:

I'm not gonna start something unless I'm immediately good

Val:

at unless I'm immediately good at it. The notion of trying and failing or being turned down is just too painful to risk. Yeah. They don't go on dates. They don't apply for the job. They don't speak in meetings or make ideas known to anyone. So I mean, if you have anybody in your life that, that sounds likely, I think what a revelation to know, that's what they're experiencing it and that it's different. Yeah. Than maybe if you're neurotypical and feel some of that

Kat:

Absolutely So again, like when we talk about interacting with other human beings, different isn't wrong, it's just different. And then again, cultivating a practice of self-compassion with yourself, where you're like, Hey, I am allowed to exist in the world as I am. It makes it a whole lot fucking easier to be like, and you are allowed to exist in the world as you are. And then you find creative problem solvings for those there's like something stuck. Right? Yeah. Mm.

Val:

And the humans around you, Spending the time to cultivate some deeper, safe relationships and talk through those things and also like maybe making it okay. That maybe you don't like to try a lot of new hobbies cuz of fear of failure. I don't feel like I need to conquer my fear of jumping out of airplanes or like bungee jumping. Fuck that. No, some people are like, I don't like the feeling that something is coming over me. No, I'm perfectly fine with there being things in my life that I'm very fearful of.

Kat:

So don't Do

Val:

em so don't do'em. Yeah. So if you wanna stay with your one or two little hobbies that you're good at. Yeah. Do it. You wanna stay at your job and you're doing okay. Or maybe there's baby steps in

Kat:

between. Right. Well, and that's the other thing, like, there could be some like internal driver, like, boy, it keeps showing back up for me that I wanna do this thing. I am fucking scared. Right. For all these reasons. And so then that's when you get to like, you just be present with what you're feeling. Right. We learn how to be kind to ourselves. And then you're like, okay, well, do I need a little support around this? And like, how can I get that support? Right. So, oh my God know, thy self know thy self know thy self. One more thing popped in my head. I wanna circle back quickly, but when we're having a conflict, right. Conflict resolution is something that is very interesting to me. And I love talking about it. I'm deeply optimistic. Like it's part of my nature. Yeah. And I'm like, you love me. I love you. We can figure something out. Right. Mm-hmm so instead of the silent treatment, because you've become overwhelmed, right. First of all, again, there's that self knowledge of like, I'm overwhelmed, but there's this great word called saturation point where you, again, you're flooded with emotion. Right? And so you need to be able to have a practice where you can sort of step outside yourself just enough to acknowledge like, oh, this is the saturation point. I absolutely cannot do anymore at And then, because it's a kindness to the people in your life that you love, you say that out loud to them. I've reached my cent generation point.

Val:

it on the outside Yes

Kat:

And so then again, it's just more language to be like, oh, I'm gonna need to circle back. Right. Or like, can we sleep and see how we feel in the morning, whatever it might be. Oh, don't you think it's so dumb that people were ever like, don't go to bed

Val:

Yeah, no. Like scientifically too, we tell couples if you're flooded, it takes at least 20 minutes for either the adrenaline or for your heart rate to go down. So you can, you can take in new information. Absolutely. So it's, very wise.

Kat:

Yeah. And again, if you have the rejection sensitivity is for you and the dysregulation of your emotions, it can be longer than Because you're flooded. And so the reaction to the stimuli can just be that much more heightened

Val:

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, friends. Oh our other ADHD episode, our first one is one of our most listen to episodes. Yeah. And we've gotten such feedback right. About People weeping, like not crying. Several people have used the word weeping and I'm just, you know, touched that. We're able to bring some catharsis or some healing. Some people saying I feel so seen, or this explains my relationship. So I hope that happened again today.

Kat:

Thank you so much.

Val:

have you reached your

Kat:

I know I'm like, did I use all my fucking words? Is that possible for love you?

Val:

cat? You meet your saturation, play cat

Kat:

I love you.

Val:

I love you, Rachel. I love you.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Valerie DiLuggo

Host
Head Shot

Kat Max

Co-host