Bonus Episode; Kat and Val Reunion!

Kat and Val are back with a much anticipated bonus episode. Our hosts laugh heartily as they share personal updates and their responses to the podcasts 3 Questions. What are you learning? What’s moving around for you? What’s bringing you pleasure? Listen and laugh as Kat and Val bring their characteristic candor and humor to everything from inner healing to various alternative healing modalities including psilocybin and much more! This episode is a feel-good super-fun ride! 

*This podcast is for entertainment purposes only

Find us on Instagram:
Kat and Val Podcast

Val's offerings:
So This is Love Club
Reset Yourself for Love Program
Instagram So This is Love Club

Kat's offerings:
Fat Liberation Art -Fat Mystic Etsy Shop
Instagram Fat_Mystic_Art

Additional resources/definitions referenced in most episodes:
How to Change Your Mind (Netflix Docuseries) Micheal Pollan
Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria
Jill Johnson Young- grief talker
Five Stages of Grief
Intuitive eating.org
NAAFA National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance
Tell Me I'm Fat - This American Life
Adrienne Maree Brown
Pleasure Activism; The Politics of Feeling Good
Come as You Are: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life
Book by Emily Nagoski
Attached - Book by Amir Levine and Rachel S. F. Heller
Understanding Dopamine: Love Hormones And The Brain
Enneagram
The Four Tendencies
Myers Briggs Personality Profiles
Highly Sensitive People (HSP)
Fat Liberation Movement
Lipedema

Transcript

Val: 0:10

You're listening to three questions with Katten, Val I'm Kat and I'm bow. We've been friends for over 20 years. Thousands of therapists and cats and artists. We're both great talkers. And we're both XFN delicacy who used to pastor gay. Now we both have chronic illnesses. We think we're fucking hilarious.

Kat: 0:39

Hello, Valerie. Yay,

Val: 0:41

Kat. We're

Kat: 0:42

here. We are here. We're together again. It's been nine months. We looked it up. Oh

Val: 0:47

my gosh. We are back finally for the long awaited bonus bonus episode update. Ta da. We've been trying to get this together for months. Yeah. A long time. Here we

Kat: 1:02

finally are. We did it though. I'm really proud of us. We're here. Yeah. I feel like a completely different person.

Val: 1:11

In talking about this, dear listeners, Kat she's like, I don't know, I'm just so different. Everything is different. I'm just so different now. I don't know. I don't know if it's going to be good in the podcast. And I was like, that's okay. I'm exactly the

Kat: 1:26

same. You guys, I've been doing a lot of mushrooms, so like, I'm like fucking altered.

Val: 1:37

So, you know, we'll balance each other out here. And we got lots to kind of lots to update each other on. We've been kind of like, I feel like we've been, we're. we've been kind of like keeping our updates to ourselves because we wanted to do them on the podcast, but that's a really long time to not do a lot of updates. So I'm like, I don't even know you anymore. We used to

Kat: 1:54

save our stories for the podcast because we wanted it to be so real and authentic for you, our listeners who we love and adore. And so we really have barely talked in nine

Val: 2:05

months. Yeah. And then there's many topics that a cat is like I need to do this in person. I can't talk to you about this on a video message. So we've been, we've been waiting. We want the best for you guys. We want the best for our, our, our lovely listeners. Is anyone listening?

Kat: 2:25

You know, it's been so long. I know, but sometimes I still see our, our email information. We get notifications from the hosts. of the, the, the podcast. Yeah, yeah. And people are still listening. I don't know who they are. I know. But like we still get regular downloads for our podcast. And we've

Val: 2:41

had like long time listeners, fans of the show. Yeah. Fans. Like, when are you guys gonna do another podcast? So that's always been really sweet to hear.

Kat: 2:51

So. Well, it feels good to be wanted. That's really true. Yeah. You're

Val: 2:55

wanted. It does. Yes. And then like we got real close, like funny enough, like back in maybe. end of February. So this was really, we weren't, it's not a real long tease. Like I get mad at TV shows when they take too long to come back. Oh, yeah. Like I forgot about you. I don't know. I need a really deep dive of a recap to know what happened last season. You know, don't do that to me, but we really didn't mean to do this. We, but life just, it just happens. And then when we missed the end of February, I was like, oh. March and April are looking crazy for me. I'm sorry. And here we are. And then I, and then I kind of confess to you. I was like, cat, I think that maybe I'm avoiding the podcast episode. So, but I think I'm over it. And then what was, what was your response to that? I

Kat: 3:41

don't know. I don't even remember you saying that to me. Yeah. Your

Val: 3:44

response was like, let's take mushrooms and then record

Kat: 3:49

it. I'm pretty sure that mushrooms are the answer for everything. Oh, my

Val: 3:54

God. And then I was like, yeah, let me just reflect back what you just did. Like I told you, like I've kind of been shying away from doing the podcast update. I don't know why. Like and then your update was just to like. Blast me into this the most uncomfortable like that was like, I think I made the mistake. I think I always try to be down for whatever. Oh, and so I think I said to you, this is my fault. I said, not like we need fault or anything, but I was like. Oh, I'm not opposed to the idea of maybe trying mushrooms and then you're like, Oh my God. Yes. I was like, back up. Well, I have to retract that state. I have to retract that statement. So then you're very cute and you were like, OK, OK, no pressure. No pressure, but it would be like. Most amazing thing if we did that. Oh my God.

Kat: 4:38

I love on TikTok, people were counting their experiences with psychedelics. There's so many TikToks of like, even like lots of celebrities that are like, this one time on mushrooms, this one time on LSD, this one time on Molly. And so I was like, Oh my God, we could do that. Like the first time. Oh

Val: 4:55

man. Yeah. I was like. Cat, I don't think the first time I do that is going to

Kat: 4:59

be recorded. That was pure enthusiasm, not based in wisdom. Wisdom that even I know and have access to means you need some time to incorporate, you know, and like integrate your experiences. I'm writing

Val: 5:11

on that. That was based in enthusiasm, not wisdom. I'm going to use that

Kat: 5:16

again. Oh, man, there's a lot of me that's like

Val: 5:19

that. That's great. Yeah, that suggested was based on enthusiasm, not wisdom. Yes. Oh, I love it. I love a good catchphrase. I love a good catchphrase. Oh man. Okay. Yep. We're going to use

Kat: 5:28

that one. So we decided that for this episode bonus, we're just going to move through our three questions, which we're so excited about. What are you learning? What's moving around for you, how you're evolving and what's bringing you pleasure? So what do you think Val? Would you like to go first? What are you learning about right now?

Val: 5:48

I feel like you need to go first. Really?

Kat: 5:51

I was already in a state of tremendous transition. You have. And so what I've experienced is some resolution, an incredible amount of transition in my life, which feels really good. Yeah. And so I do feel altered because last year, our 29 episodes of recording was an incredible incredibly rich time of growth and exploration and significant changes in my life. And so some of those have like completed their, their, their cycle, you know, and I would say a lot of it has to do with like inner healing stuff and things I was particularly working on that, you know, I've noticed that with the help of, psilocybin magic mushrooms, like, they're, they're really useful for therapeutic purposes. And so I really do feel altered, like I feel different. I feel like some core wounding from my childhood and early years and even some religious trauma, like. I did the work, Val, I showed up and I used whatever tools resonated with me, you know, and so I feel really strongly that, like, whatever you're attracted to, whatever resonates, then that's probably the healing modality that's gonna work most effectively for you, right? I don't think it works really good when someone's like, Oh my God, you gotta try this thing. And then, then, unless you have your own internal yes. I don't know that it's going to work that well for you. But when you have some internal yeses, and my yes for mushrooms is so big and just fun, playful enthusiasm, right? And it, I just, I let it help me discover what, what else is inside that was ready to heal and move through. And that, that feels really good. So I feel. I feel healed. I feel healed. And then, Val, here's the cool fucking thing, is it manifested physically. We have an episode in our 29 episodes about a supernatural healing, right? Because we both, we come from a Pentecostal religious background, we're, yes. Faith healing was a part of our culture and then we had this great conversation months ago back in July, I think, where we're like trying to like process it and what do we think about it now and how do we explore healing from a non ableist point of view, right, where we're not given into healthism and all these other things that are equating certain Certain health aspects with morality, right? We don't do that. But I did all this inner healing stuff and then my physical body Stopped hurting so bad and in March of this year. I had a dramatic Improvement how I was feeling and I can walk and stand much further than I have and it just keeps getting better and better And when it first happened the pain went away like I used to be able to stand for about two minutes Between two and five minutes without pain and then sudden, dramatic, like a seizing feeling in my low back would, would require me to sit down. So, that came with a lot of anxiety when I was moving around in the world. Like, would there be seating for me? Like, do I need to bring this rollator I have? Because you

Val: 8:45

only had like two to

Kat: 8:46

five minutes. It's not very long, right? Yeah, yeah. And like, I would have to make sure I would get parking. I mean, all kinds of things, right? And then, so after the pain went away, there was this like integration time where I was like, Oh my god, I gotta, I gotta retrain my brain to be like, I'm free to just move about the world. I, I'm not in pain anymore. And so, you know, I, I still live in a large body and I do still have certain limitations. So it's not that I'm like, you know, hiking trails right now, but I can walk around the block. I can run errands. I can do all the things I can do without like this intense pain forcing me to sit down. And then, so that was. That was March that that happened and that's months ago now and I can, it just keeps growing. My ability and my stamina. My body's healing. I know. My insides healed. They healed. And then my, my physical body is healing. Yeah.

Val: 9:38

It's so good. Well, as your friend, I'm so happy. And I remember the day you told me. Yeah. I think it was on this couch behind us. I think you were like cause you were sort of, and I've talked about this before, you were kind of counseling me about like I was taking a little bit of a medical leave for my own mental health issues. And I was in a job where I was having a lot of like secondary trauma and I. I, that sort of like pull yourself up by the bootstraps, like you need to keep pushing, pushing and being productive and being able to make money and all that stuff, which are all realities. But I was very held in by that. And you were like, I think. Maybe you just need to rest until your body tells you. And it's probably going to be longer than you think. I remember talking to me about that. But then you also said, you know, I don't know how or, or, or, or how it's going to happen, but I'm going to heal my, I'm going to heal my body.

Kat: 10:31

Wow. I said that that long ago. That was years

Val: 10:34

ago. It had to have been like two, 2017. Yeah. Probably 2017. Yeah.

Kat: 10:39

That's really cool. Thank you for reflecting that back to me. Like I. I, along the way, that felt like a hard thing to hold, but it always came back, right? This belief that we could heal our bodies. And I seem to have this connection in my mind that, for me, and I'm, again, we're not saying this is for every person, but in my discernment for my own life and my own journey, I could tell that some of my inner healing stuff, old trauma stuff, family of origin stuff, it, It was connected to my physical healing, right? And so when I was able to show up and be really present with some really difficult things the, then, then healing was just the next, the next overflow.

Val: 11:21

Would you use the word like, would you describe it as a release? Or what happened to the pain or to the trauma? Do you, do you, how do you

Kat: 11:33

talk about it? Well, it wasn't exactly the same timeline. So, last fall, I would say would be like the throes of some big Like, I, I can really look back at my story and see that, like, Abandonment was sort of a core wounding of mine. Right? And it was showing up in my present day relationships as well. And it was sort of echoing Family of origin, trauma. And so, you know, I, my understanding of how this all works now, right, I will, I'll just say like the universe, like the universe or our own psyche, like we have a tendency to repeat patterns in the hopes of healing it, right? And so when we find ourselves in relationships that feel similar, there's dynamics that are similar to our family of origin stuff, it's because we're drawn to get it right this time, right? And so in that, In that, that was happening in my life, and I was just desperate for that to be resolved, you know? I started to learn how to really center myself. I realized that I was allowing people close to me that actually weren't good and talented at loving me when that's my strongest skill set, right? You and I are both quite good at relating and loving other people well and so I was like, wait a minute, I deserve Oh my God, I deserve to only have people in my life that are as good at this as I am. And that was huge. And that came after healing some old trauma stuff that was like, you know, we just, we were willing to put up with shit when I was like, I think I'm done putting up with

Val: 13:06

shit. Yeah. And as you were talking, I was just thinking about how that heals us even because We're putting ourselves in situations that are not good for our nervous systems, right? And then when you're saying like, nope, I'm I'm removing that. I don't want that anymore. Yeah, I imagine as well that that heals us Right or it takes us out of a situation where we're in the constant state right of fight or flight or stress Yeah, or so that very act is like Clearing, like purifying the air, if you will, right, around us.

Kat: 13:36

Yeah. And so I was able to regulate my nervous system because of all that, right? And that's the thing. Like, I was talking to someone about spiritual awakening and I was like, Oh, what if spiritual awakening is just us learning how to regulate our nervous system and to stop believing things that make us feel bad about ourselves? Like, what if it really is that easy? Yeah. And so that's, that's literally what I started to do. And it wasn't, it sounds so easy. Like these sentences don't sound. Radically difficult. But the

Val: 14:07

work is difficult. The work

Kat: 14:08

really is difficult. And there was more than one interpersonal relationship that I had that I had that I literally ended because I was noticing, I was finally able to see like, oh, they're not good at this and I deserve people that are. Right? And so,

Val: 14:25

yeah. I think this is why you and I resonate so much with each other because I'd say that that statement you made about spiritual awakening is basically how I do therapy. Right. I just started with a new client that just really in a real fight or flight situation and like small Nervous system tools teaching. Yeah, this person and then looking at all the beliefs and all the shoulds and all the things that we fear and all those things things like really examining those and leaving the things that don't serve us is just so much of the work that I'm doing with people. So, yeah.

Kat: 15:02

You're healing, we're healing ourselves, we're healing other people. It feels really good.

Val: 15:06

I had a situation recently where I was around someone that I hadn't been in a while and I actually got like physical pain after having to deal with their dysfunction and it was like, Oh, I haven't had this pain in so long and it came so kind of violently and suddenly as a result of that stress. Yeah. So the more that we can purify the air, right, of the things that are just like not good for us. You were talking about things that just are not good for our nervous system and then when you have to go back to it, that's the best test and the best like, oh wow, like, yeah, I don't have this pain anymore. Right. Yeah. Oh, I know. So good. I know. You're asking about things I'm learning. I think, and this seems. Yeah. So simple yet like, oh, well, you know, one of those aha moments, like you're saying this stuff in concept isn't hard, but the application and the work is hard. I've been thinking about chronic pain and you know, you and I both suffer from that and chronic illnesses, right? So then there's even like chronic gut issues and like migraines and all these things that are chronic that honestly, Western, like traditional Western medicine doesn't have a lot of options for us, right? And in my training in EMDR, which, you know, is a modality of healing they believe that that a lot of the chronic pain is actually emotional or from trauma, which makes sense why maybe it would. Western medicine doesn't have a lot of answers for that, right? Sorry, kid. I don't know how to, to help this chronic thing that's happening. So that made a lot of sense. And then just talking about fascia maneuvers and releases, right? I was talking about, you were talking about following things that your curiosity and we had a joke about this guy might be like, this guy might have a cold, but well, you know, we're not going to get. like Dan, but maybe some of the things that he's suggesting about fascial releases and bringing emotional healing. And it all kind of kicked in when, just reminding of a very simple fact that like your fascia, like the connective tissue or the connection with all your muscles is one of the biggest organs. And that would make sense. If we're thinking on a biological level, right? Fight, flight, faint, freeze, fawn, right? Your fight or flight reaction Needs your muscles, right? So where are we gonna store all this information that is trying to keep you safe? Right, right. Yeah. In your fucking muscles. Exactly. What is fibromyalgia? What's the biggest problem with fibromyalgia? Right. Muscle tightness and pain. Yeah. And all that kind of stuff,

Kat: 17:44

right? And we've talked about this before, like, you and I both score high on the highly sensitive persons list, right? Mm hmm. And then, you know, again, I have some other additional neurodiversity and we just are sensitive humans, right? Yeah. And we're in this like, Yeah. fucking chaotic world, right? And, you know, what's the the book? The Body Keeps Score, right? And so if we're able to say, okay, I'm going to think outside the box, I'm going to take control of my own life and my own healing journey. I'm going to, I'm going to be open to some alternatives because this one looks curious to me, or this one looks shiny to me, or like this one seems a little weird, but I can't stop thinking about

Val: 18:20

it. Like something about it kind of seems smart.

Kat: 18:22

Yeah. Yeah. And so why the Fuck not, you know,

Val: 18:26

I think that you and I've talked about, like, even outside of religion, like sort of the fundamental view or this very rigid way of like, there's only one way. Right. And I think even, you know, in the field of therapy, we've, we've accepted that most people have an eclectic style and then there's certain things that make therapy more, more successful or not. And It just, right? It just seems to make sense. Why not? We're all so different. We all, we all respond to something different. There's modalities or there's things that are going to work for one person and

Kat: 18:56

not the other. Did you end up going to see that person? I

Val: 18:59

didn't, I didn't yet. We were so different and I'm just like, hmm, I'm going to take it slow. I'm going to, he's still on my feed. Also, he said one thing about getting sunlight in your eyes and everyone was like, this is terrible advice. Oh my God. Stay in your lane. And so then I was like.

Kat: 19:16

Okay, so if something resonates with you, right, that's the whole thing. Okay, so, oh my God. You're just, people got mad at that dude because he's like, look at the sun. I don't know where I heard it from, but a very long time ago, I heard something that said, Why do you think they don't want you to look at the sun? There's like magic powers or something in the sun. And so when I am on mushroom trips, I'm not kidding you. I'm home alone doing mushroom trips. Sometimes I have a friend that comes over to us mushroom trips with me and I will go into my backyard area and I will just look right at the sun. I'm like, it's healing me. I'm getting free, fuckers. I'm getting so

Val: 19:47

free. I guess like I doctors say it's very bad for you to look at the sun without protection, like very bad for you. But but the sun itself, like, I don't know. I don't know. Do your own thing. I don't know. Also, it's not.

Kat: 20:05

I've been playing this game where I just am like, I just choose to me because I'm gamifying my life, right? And I was like, something in my body felt like, like energized when I heard that sentence, right? And I'm not like a hardcore conspiracy theorist. I'm not, but it just, I was like, Oh yeah. And I'm like eons of peoples. existed before you and I, that sunglasses were not a fucking thing. Do you know what I mean? People worshipped the goddamn sun. Why can't I look at it if I want to?

Val: 20:39

Just not for extended periods of time without talking to your doctor.

Kat: 20:44

Be your own fucking doctor. That's so funny, I really had no intention of saying that out loud to anyone ever, but you mentioned it and that's what made you like a little bit unsure about this dude and I I love it. I'm with your doctor, dude. I, I,

Val: 21:05

I bet you are.

Kat: 21:08

Wait, will you explain, I know, right? Will you explain what it is that he does, this fascial dude? What is the, what is the modality?

Val: 21:15

You know, I've been trying to research him, because I want to know what kind of fucking credentials do you have, sir? I guess he calls it fascial releases. OK, are there certain positions? Yeah that are healing. And that's that's the nutshell. But he also like, yeah, his 25 day reset is like, you know. I don't know. I think there's supplements involved. And that's where we gotta, that's where we gotta be.

Kat: 21:43

So, but I saw, I think you sent me a video once, right? He like will hold a person in a certain way and like kinda...

Val: 21:48

Yeah, in his underwear. That also was a red flag to me. I'm like, why are you in your boxer shorts, dude? But... Put some fucking clothes on. I don't know. You know me.

Kat: 21:58

I'm, I'm. Okay. A lot of times I see this person on TikTok on doing lives on TikTok. Yeah. And they I don't know his name, but he's, he's a healer in China. He's Chinese. And he is, it looks like chiropractic, but what he's doing is so intense, right? He's very Yeah. physical. Yeah. And people come in with like dramatic pain, right. And they're like making noises and he's pressing on points and they're like, Oh my God, they can't even stand it. Right. Yeah. And then he like very physically engages with him. He's got a, a table and sometimes he like stands them up. He like reaches from behind and like, like lifts them and shakes them. He does like really aggressive stuff. Right. They're fucking pain free there. You can see the radical difference. Right. Yeah. And I'm like, so I don't know, like how much shit gets trapped in our body and someone that's like willing to look weird, right? Honestly. Yeah. Because we don't interact with other adults this way in our normal society, right? And there's,

Val: 22:54

Yeah, you know, he's, I mean, there are things I do like about him. Yeah. And like he does talk about like doing these for your partners or your friends or like, assisted maneuvers and ones you can do yourself and just kind of clearing things. I guess I am a believer now that like, does like things really are trapped in your body. And so, yeah, so we'll see, maybe I will finally, you know, enter into that world and see what happens. But definitely like, it makes sense that like. If you're trying to activate your fight or flight, like, you know, survival, of course, this, this, this information is getting stored in your muscles. I love to tell people your brain is trying to keep you safe, not happy. Right. Yeah.

Kat: 23:38

And then, you know, when we learn how to, like, regulate our nervous system so we're not always We're not just trying to stay safe, we just internalize the knowledge that we are safe. We can navigate our life forward in a way where we're not just surviving. We're not afraid all the time anymore. That's what, you know, all of these mushroom trips have really had the cumulative effect for me of being like, Oh, I don't feel afraid. I, I feel afraid of very, very little. And when something shows up that I'm afraid, I get curious about my fear about it and then I see what is ready to move and move through and then it just keeps moving through. And that's the thing, like, all of us in our culture, we were taught to clamp down and not let things move through. And so, it's so beautiful when we can like, you know, get to a place where like, oh, I'm not afraid of this thing that would have made me feel afraid before and so now I can just navigate from a place of, I don't know, of like curiosity and openness and like following my own, like, like passion or, or desire or like what feels shiny to me without fear. Yeah. And again I don't wanna make it sound like I have zero fear. I mean it still shows up but I just, I, it doesn't shut me down. It doesn't stop me. I just, I get creative in my problem solving and I get really present with it and then I, I just feel so much more free.

Val: 24:58

Hmm. Yeah. That creativity, the play, the the nonjudgmental noticing if you work with mindfulness, right? All of that.

Kat: 25:07

Looking at the sun. Hahaha.

Val: 25:09

Hahaha. Hahaha. Hahaha. Hahaha.

Kat: 25:17

I know you can't sign off on that one. It's like killing you inside. I

Val: 25:20

know. No, I'm thinking of something else and I'm like, do I really want to say it? But then I'm like maybe I don't want to go down that rabbit hole. But because, you know, like people I understand are like they're. They're exposing their buttholes to the sun?

Kat: 25:37

I swear to God I heard about this.

Val: 25:39

Yeah, not just like, I mean there's like the aesthetic people want to bleach their buttholes. Okay, whatever. But then also that they're exposing their buttholes because they think it's good for them. For their butthole to get sun. And I want to bring this all the way around, full circle, because my good friend, best friend tier, she was telling me about getting screened for sun cancer, skin cancer, from the sun, right? Runs in her family, so she's real serious about it, and I'm like, no, the lady at Kaiser just kind of did a one over, like, You're good. I'm like, no, no. So the next time I went, I'm like, I want you like, I want to strip down. I want you to look, I want you to look real good. Okay. And she was telling me like, oh yeah, man, the last time I went, the lady was like, okay, I'm going to now spread your butt cheeks. And I'm like, she's looking for. Skin cancer. But now it just clicked. Now I know why. Because people are starting to like expose their butthole to the sun, so she has to check people's butt cheeks now. Can you imagine being a dermatologist and like, can you guys believe what I have to do now? I gotta check people's butt cheeks for skin cancer because. Assholes are literally bleaching their asshole in the sun!

Kat: 26:54

Oh my god, that's hilarious. Okay, beyond some vague it has a benefit, what is it supposed to be helping people with?

Val: 27:02

I really don't know. I really don't know. I'm sure you all

Kat: 27:05

can Google that. I don't know. Be careful.

Val: 27:07

Be careful Googling it, people. We're not, we're not responsible for what shows up. But yeah, that's what I was thinking in my mind. So I said it. There you go. Thank you. You made me do it.

Kat: 27:18

Oh my gosh, that's awesome.

Val: 27:20

Oh, Jesus.

Kat: 27:24

Okay, so I've been learning a whole bunch of different stuff and one of the other things I've been learning, well, okay, it still is kind of in the category of like mushrooms, but like I've been immersing myself in this, this subculture, right? I've been reading all these books from people who have been using various kinds of psychedelics for decades, but they had to go underground because, you know, the political system. So it shows up in the 50s. Psychedelics show up in the 50s and it's like, hey, this is gonna make everything better. Let's use this therapeutically, right? And it's natural. It's plant medicine. And then the government sort of cracks down because LSD got sort of like moved out into the populace, right? And then it was stressing people out. Well, I mean, I'm not saying that the drug itself was stress people. I think that the powers that be felt like it was a, a, a substance. We need to control the people. That they wanted to control. Right. Yeah. Anyway, so it turns out there's like tons of people out there that have just continued to use psychedelics and learn about it and research it, but they were just doing it underground. They're just quiet. And so now all of them are coming out with all these fucking books, right. And all this information and all these cool things. I know. So I went to this conference about psychedelics.

Val: 28:40

Wait, should we tell them the funny thing that happened where you're like, do you want to go with me to this like mushroom psychedelic thing? And in my mind, I was like, oh, phew, sorry, Kat, I'm going to be out of tune. I don't know how I have an excuse. Oh

Kat: 28:54

my God. I, yeah, I invited a bunch of people. Nobody wanted to go with me. I think one friend did, did show up. No,

Val: 28:59

but then, but then I had a client who was like, Oh my my friend, wants. to go to this like, kind of weird conference. And then I was like, it's not a mushrooms like Zella conference in Oakland, California, is it? And she's like, Oh my gosh, how do you know? I'm like, well, I have a colleague. I just call you my colleague. Whenever I talk about you, I'm like, I have a colleague who invited me to go, but thankfully I was out of town. I was like, I can't believe that happened, but yes, sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

Kat: 29:29

Valerie. Clearly the mushrooms are after you. Like they keep showing up and you're like, okay, listen, I really think this is true. When things organically just keep crossing our path. I feel like it's an invitation. Listen. Yeah.

Val: 29:41

Listen, Linda. I, did you call me Linda? Yeah. You know that, you know, that little boy, the video, he's calling his mom, Linda. And she's like, why'd you eat the cookies? Linda, listen, Linda, Linda, listen. I, I do think it's one of those things that like. Yeah. I do have a curiosity, but I'm, I, I do not have, I might have subclinical ADHD, but I do not have ADHD. I am not running fucking toward these things. Sure. I am like standing in the corner. Yeah. Watching everybody else do it. And then like what could

Kat: 30:12

go wrong? Remember you told me that a mushroom started growing in one of your plants without any effort. It just like showed up one day. Like they were like getting your attention Val.

Val: 30:21

Yes. Okay. At some point. And then maybe we could talk about it, but, but I'm not, I'm not doing much, I'm just being recorded. Okay. Okay.

Kat: 30:27

So I go to this conference, right? And one of the things that I observed, okay, let me just preface this by saying. You and I are both people that have had deep spiritual practices and now I would say we're both like really into like Meditating and like it's a big part of my life and then personal growth and evolution all that stuff Yeah part of my life. Yeah, so I assumed that, like, people who had had access to this plant medicine, this particular tool of psilocybin found in magic mushrooms, would be more evolved, like they would have less ego. Turns out, this is what I learned by going to the conference, there's just nothing new under the sun, really, right? Like, we all... Like the people that were one, one person in particular that was kind of in charge of the conference. I just was like, Oh, you told me, Oh, this energy is familiar to me. And I was like, What is that? And it just was like, I could tell there is some ego stuff in there. And I was like, Oh, so like ego death isn't automatic. With like using this tool, right? Using magic mushrooms. And I was like, that is really interesting. And so If someone is going to take psychedelics, but they, they, they haven't created an internal space of like healing and safety and some of these other tools, some wisdom, some like, you know, I'm saying ego death, but I really mean like additional like trauma work and you know what I mean, stuff like that. And so I was like. Oh, there's just no way around the fact that all of us are going to have to get to a place in our lives where we just look ourselves square in the face, right? We contend with ourself, right? And there are lots of tools and modalities out there, but You gotta, at the end of the day, no matter what you're using, no matter what it is, no matter what helpers you find in your life, like, you are the only person in charge of your life and your well being, you know? Yeah. And like, you are the only person in charge of like, Who the fuck you want to be, you know, and so I thought it was so interesting It's it helped me adjust my focus that like it's not that the mushrooms. They are magic I mean, they're fucking cool, but they're not going to do all the fucking work. Do you mean you? We gotta sit with ourselves we got to be present with what shows up we gotta say, okay, I'm ready to heal Yeah, or I'm ready to die. Sometimes dying is the best part of healing. Mm. Yeah It's really true. Yeah, I, I have all, we've talked about this before, but like, I really am like, there's the ADHD, but I'm like triple fire sign and my like star signs, right? Yeah. So like the Phoenix analogy, I feel like I've died and was reborn over and over and over again. Like I just keep doing it. Like, I think I get off on it. And so like, the death doesn't scare me anymore, right? Something scary shows up and most of us are afraid to look at it because a part of you will die. It's ego, right? A part of us dies. But on the other side!

Val: 33:26

Yeah. So interesting, because, yeah, like the, once you've done it once, Yeah. you know that you can come, you dive at something better or more evolved or pure or whatever adjective you want to use. Like, something better comes out of that fire, so you're not afraid to go into it, because it's kind of like a good thing.

Kat: 33:43

Yeah. And it's still uncomfortable, but like, think about it, like you and I, like, we were, you know, we're Pentecostal pastors, right? And then the death that comes with that, leaving that worldview, right? That was excruciating, but you and I both survived it. We came to the other side and we're more free. Right. And then I w I saw that my longterm marriage, right. I, I. I didn't really want it to end but I was evolving in a way that meant that there was, there was just no more resonance with the person I chose to be married to. And so I had to let that die and on the other side it was more and more freedom, right? And more and more authenticity, right, as we like discover ourselves on these deeper profound levels. And here's the thing I've been learning in my own journey. My, my curiosity and my enthusiasm around psilocybin is so high that. It's like, I feel like I'm someone who's attracted to extreme sports, but it's on the inside. Right? Like, I have this acquaintance that, like, tried to hike Mount Everest. And and so they were doing like regular updates about it and I was enthralled for them. I was like, this is so fucking cool. Good for you. And then I was realizing that my experience with, with mushrooms has been, or, or anything that gets us into a different state of being, you know, like unaltered state of consciousness, our internal space is as vast as the whole fucking cosmos. That thrills me, that thrills me. And so anytime we're using a tool or a substance or meditation or breath work, there's lots of ways to get into this kind of altered state of consciousness, to discover yourself over and over again and how infinite we are and how powerful we are and how loving we are. It's goddamn

Val: 35:30

fucking beautiful. I love it that you just said, I am into extreme sports, but on the inside, that needs to go in the show notes. I know

Kat: 35:39

that not a kinky thing. It's not not a kinky thing.

Val: 35:44

But you are like, like the equivalent of like climbing Mount Everest or like, yeah, doing like triple jumps on your, on your motorbike. Right. Yeah. Being helicoptered down into A, a, a, a mountain to ski. That's a thing. Yeah. Yeah. You're doing that on the, on your mushroom trips.

Kat: 36:05

Yeah. Well, okay. When I was preparing for that conference, I saw that one of the topics was going to be high dose trips and I was like, Oh, I'm going to fucking do a high dose then. Of course you are. And so I did, I did more mushrooms while I had two mushrooms, which is enough to have a pretty significant psychedelic experience. And while I was high, I was outside and the sun was setting, I was by myself and I was like, I could finish this fucking bag. I had a whole ounce and it's, if you don't, if you're not familiar, you don't really understand how much that is. It's just a lot of fucking mushrooms. And then it turns out I'm learning a lot about different varieties of mushrooms and things. And so it was a particular variety. It was called Avalanche and it's a particular environment, yeah,

Val: 36:46

extreme sport on the inside.

Kat: 36:49

I know, it like, it fucking ripped me a new one, like, like reality collapsed in on itself over and over again. Like, it's sort of like, it's challenging, it, it feels like an extreme sport to let yourself be alike. It feels like, it, your concept of everything that you know to be true to allow it. to be, like, challenged or fucking crushed out of you or whatever it might be. Like, sometimes the mushroom trips are, like, expansive and lovely and beautiful, but these high dose trips, you're, you're, I feel like a fucking explorer, right? And then it took some time to integrate after that trip that was, it was intense, it was very long, like, psychedelics are, they're a long Psychoactive experience. So they're talking hours, sometimes 10 hours if you take so much.

Val: 37:35

I know. So you're saying integrating back into like quotation mark life. Yeah.

Kat: 37:39

Because we're still here. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So one

Val: 37:42

time your avatar is still here anyway.

Kat: 37:47

Yeah. And so. So then you're like, well, I'm still here on this planet, so I gotta, I gotta figure out how to be a human, right? But you, but it feels to me very good to have had these experiences where I'm like, oh my god, nothing's real and Everything is real. Everything you can imagine is real somewhere in some fucking dimension. It's so weird and so woo woo And I fucking love it

Val: 38:13

God, I love it so much. I feel like when you were talking i'm like And, and, and we, we want to like keep doing updates on this podcast, but I think you need a splinter podcast of just about mushrooms. Like I fucking love the magic mushroom story time or whatever. I don't know. I don't know. That's amazing. Should we, should we break for commercial? Let's break for commercial. Okay. We'll be right back. Are you looking for love? But you're ready to give up on dating it's. So hopper and reset yourself for love with me in my six week coaching program together, we'll prepare you for dating with new clarity, intention, and passion to create the life and love you desire.

Kat: 38:54

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Val: 38:55

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Val: 39:32

Oh, hi, we're back. Hi, Val. Can we admit that we listened to our jingle because we hadn't heard it in a while? It got us back in the mood.

Kat: 39:41

Yes. Like, aw. I love our jingle so much. It always makes me laugh every time. I know. It's pretty funny.

Val: 39:47

Yeah, we did such a good job. Can I tell you, I saw someone, like an acquaintance from my way past, and again, not our demographic, I would think. And and he was like, I love the podcast. Are you still doing it? Well, I even like remembered kind of a funny story or something. But I was like, sir, I know that the effort probably really. Offends you. Like, how did you get past our, don't we swear in the, we do, we swear in the opening to like ward off like anyone that might be more offended. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean that in a good way for them. Yes. Like, Oh. There's a, there's, there's a big F bomb right in the intro. So I was really, I was really confused by it, but I just went with it. And I was like, thank you so much. She's like, you really got to keep doing that. Oh, you guys are so good, blah, blah.

Kat: 40:36

Well, there's so much aliveness here, right? People are drawn to that.

Val: 40:40

I think we're almost done with what we're learning, but I'm seeing this little, this little beautiful little vial you brought me as a

Kat: 40:46

present. Yeah. Okay. So another thing that I learned how to do in the last nine months is Valerie just took a whiff of it. Okay. So I am enthusiastic about plant medicine, and so the only drugs, quote unquote drugs I've tried are mushrooms and cannabis, right? And so I wanted to be able to make. Canna oil and it's a whole long process. You and I learned how to do it and I really wanted to make, I wanted to make pot brownies. Yes. And when I was like a teenager I was, that 70s show was on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And And I remember seeing it and at one point they're all eating pot brownies and I, I remember the worldview you and I were in would not allow me to ever have a pot brownie, right? It was like a no no. But the, the depiction on that TV show of people being high on weed, I was like, that looks fun, right? That looks fun to me. And so fast forward. I'm I'm making canned oil all by myself and there's, again, it's a long process and then I, I finish it and I make the pot brownies. It was this whole long day thing and the whole apartment smells a little bit like weed because I've got it toasting in the oven and then you infuse the oil in and I was just having the best fucking day of my goddamn life. There was a part of me that was so like, like able to access this younger version of myself that I was like, look, look over here. And now I do it every, you know, five or six weeks. I make a new batch because I use it. I make pot brownies, right? And I just like to have the oil around. You could put a little in your coffee or, you know, however you want to take it. But you know, an edible is an easier high as a body high. It's a different sensation than like. Smoking marijuana, which is a just it's a more of a brain high look at me. I know about all this shit now

Val: 42:29

Cat's apothecary

Kat: 42:30

so I brought you some canna oil that I made

Val: 42:33

all by myself. Thank you so much oh, I got a little oil. I got some oil. Thank you so much, Kat. I, you can

Kat: 42:43

use it as lip balm. I mean, it will have a little bit of an effect, But I'm really proud of that skill. I have that skillset now and that feels really fun. Do really want to do mushrooms with you sometime, or just like help you get some mushrooms. You can do a trip by yourself or you and your feet can do it. It's so fun. When reality, like,

Val: 42:58

collapse in on itself. See, that does not sound fun to me. Reality collapsing on itself? No. That does not sound fun. Cat. Jeez. You and I have a different definition of fun. No, seriously. I'm inching closer, which honestly is like a big thing for me because I think control Right. Control was a very powerful tool for me. Right. And I still love like I still love talking to clients like of course I like attract the ones that are probably like me And you know we talked about Just the illusion of control right like releasing that yeah, and I know I'm blowing their minds But I'm like no really when you kind of give up control. Yeah, and it feels so good. It's

Kat: 43:39

so freeing I'm experiencing that it feels better and better and better the better you get at it right and so like living in unknowns isn't as scary as it once was for me. Yeah. And, you know, I've had to start my life over a whole bunch of times. And I would say that I'm definitely in a rebuilding time now. I moved past the, like, I gotta heal all this stuff, right, and now I'm in a, hey, I'm brand new out here in the world and I gotta, like, figure out what I wanna do with myself, right? Yeah. And so I'm okay with that. In some ways I feel like I'm starting from zero, but like zero is fucking whole. whole, Val. And I, I just, my God, it feels good. Yeah. So trusting that, again, you can call it God, the universe or your higher self, whatever it might be, but trusting that there, there is. You know, something larger than our present reality that is for us, that is benevolent, that loves us unconditionally, that is actively involved in us pursuing a life that we want to be living. You know? Like, life doesn't have to be difficult we get to choose how we respond to any kind of stimuli, right? Yeah. So, one of the things I'm learning is I'm playing this game where... I, I continually want to be shedding beliefs that don't serve me, right? And again, you and I, our background belief was a very dogmatic, truth capital T, and you know, to the exclusion of other people's beliefs. That's the world view you and I came from. So to have a belief felt like a big loaded big deal, right? Yeah. And I spent some time exploring. In, like, you know, kind of Buddhist philosophy, this idea of, like, non belief, like you believe everything and nothing, right? And you don't attach to ideas and all those kinds of things. And then more recently, I was introduced to this idea that You can let go of a belief. It just doesn't feel good to you, just let it go. And like that makes you seem crazy in our like mainstream world, right? Or like, I just don't want to believe that so I'm not going to believe that, right? And then you choose a belief that feels helpful to you. So like a simple one is like, I just believe that I'm super fucking lucky. Right? I just believe that I am. I look back at my life and I'm like, everything always works out for me. Right? And then I believe that whatever challenging thing I may experience in the future, like, it is in some way for my benefit. Like that's just my worldview now, right? I get to decide that and then how fucking fun like if I get a flat tire or something inconvenient happens, I can just be like, huh, I wonder how this will work out for my benefit as opposed to what we do, all the chemicals released in our body when we go into like scarcity of like, Oh my God, I'm going to pay for this. What's going to happen? It is a much different reality and we actually have control over that. Based on what we choose to believe this feels radical to me

Val: 46:33

It definitely it definitely is for for a society for our society where there's so many things that are not serving us right and We might have mentioned the book before. Sapiens I forget the the author's name, but I I think that book Was it was what I took away from it or one of the things was Just the realization of how many things are made up. Oh, totally. Like, how many things are made up. I love to tell clients to do it. It's all made up. It's all made up. And getting back to like what's really important, right? I have a lot of clients really struggling with work right now. And it's like, what, what is real? Yeah. Nature. Yeah. Your, your, your children, your relationships, right? Like the sun shining down right now. Those things are real. Yeah. So, corporations, made up! Made up. Money, made up! Money is fucking made up. Rules and regulations of society. I know. Made up. Etiquette is super made up. Etiquette. I know. Super

Kat: 47:34

made up. Professionalism? Made

Val: 47:36

up. Made up. Yeah. What, what, what, body is, is, is Ideal. Ideal. Yeah. Made up. Made up. It's all made up. Yeah. So, it, it, like, again, back to, it's radical and yet it's very simple. Mm hmm. Oh, do you want to believe that? I mean, there's certain things, right? Maybe gravity? I don't know. I mean, maybe not when you're on mushrooms, but like, We're not saying like, like, you know, like there's certain things that maybe are tangible and true, but But a lot of things, most things are just made up.

Kat: 48:05

Right. Yeah. And then again, so here's the thing, like I feel like being personally empowered is really really important to me and as a parent it's what I, I feel like I drill home to my children, right? And I was on a drive with them the other day, I was like, what's the one thing I want you guys to know? You guys tell me what you think it is. And they both came up with, you know, essentially the, the right answer, but it's autonomy. It's that you are in charge of your life. You're in charge of it. You get to decide for yourself. And our culture has been very effective at, at grinding that out of us and telling us that we have to submit to this set of rules or this kind of reality or this is how the world works. Well, fuck all of that. If it doesn't feel good, if it feels oppressive, it creates a lot of fucking dread in your life. Play around with what new beliefs can create some spaciousness, right? Wow.

Val: 48:54

As you're talking, I'm just thinking about, you know, we talk a lot about healthism where like. Part of the belief is like you can determine your health. Sure. You are in a hundred percent control of your health Yeah, which we would probably say that's not really true right genetics and environment all those things So it's almost like you're saying the same thing that is opposite, but it's it's it's

Kat: 49:15

different. Well, okay Here's the thing. There are paradoxes everywhere. Yeah, and honest to God the mushrooms They they when you go to altered states of reality, it doesn't matter if you use mushrooms, right if you go to a different state of consciousness where you're aware but you're elevated in some kind of way. Again, breath work, meditation, anything. You create space in your thinking mind to hold dualities, to hold paradox, to hold the both and. Right? And so, Both things are true and so when you come back and you're like, well, this is my one life and right now I'm still experiencing symptoms of a chronic illness, what the fuck do I want to do about it? Do I want to be... A victim? Or do I want to explore healing modalities? Do I want to explore radical acceptance? Do I want to explore what this experience is, is maybe opening up to me? Like, I, I fuckin learned so much from the disability justice movement. Do you know how much, like, confidence it gave me that like, fuck everybody, I get to live my full life in the body I inhabit, right? And it, It crushed out of me some ableist beliefs, right? And so I got, I got to infuse my life with that power, right? And so again, you live in the both and you, you own whatever is really true about your own life. Yeah. I

Val: 50:35

mean, I guess, I guess they sound, I guess my point was they sound similar, but they're not. Right. Where like where one might be more blame or, or the pull up your bootstraps. Right. I think, If, if, if you didn't look close enough, to me, it kind of sounded almost like you were saying the same thing, but not. But not. But not guys, not. That it was like, you're in control of how you experience your reality.

Kat: 51:05

Well there, that's a perfect sentence. All of us are in control of how we experience our reality. Yeah.

Val: 51:13

Why not make it pleasurable? Why not make it as less

Kat: 51:17

painful? And I think why not is because trauma locks us in. I really do. That was my experience. And that's why all of this freedom came after this intense fucking season of some really hard shit. I had to look at some painful things. There was a moment where I was doing what I would call shadow work or trauma work and some intense feelings came up and I was terrified. And it lasted several minutes of experiencing the terror that I, I, I just, I had to kind of let it come through, right? And, and it's interesting that we could spend decades or a whole life avoiding a few minutes of something really painful.

Val: 51:59

Oh, okay. Two quotes. Yes. One is from the, the Trauma Foundation NICAM that says What we are all trying to avoid is sensations in our bodies. Whoa. Yeah. Right? Like that's, like, you just said it. Yeah. Like it wasn't, it's, is it the memory? Yeah, but it's the sensation in your body. So everything we're doing is we're trying to avoid, right? Like people pleasing. Totally. I don't like the feeling of my body when someone's mad at me. Exactly. Right? Failure. I don't like the feeling when I feel ashamed. Right. So that's why the body work is so important. Yeah. The other one that I saw recently was something along the lines of we are not healing trauma so that we can So that we can stand the trauma hmm, we're we're healing the trauma so we can experience more love and joy yes Ah, that's exactly what, like you just said, I love it.

Kat: 52:53

And, okay, so when, it's so empowering to own your whole entire story, right? Did this painful thing happen to you? Yes? Okay, what are you going to do with it? Right? And I don't mean that in like an oppressive way, and it doesn't feel fair. I don't think life is fair. It's not about fairness. Right. It's about, this is what my reality has, has contained. This is what my story is contained. And so how am I going to choose to respond to that? Right. And from a very young age, I was like, I'm getting fucking whole. Right. And then several years ago, I was like, Oh, I am whole. Right. And then it was, Oh, there's still, there's some trauma stuff here. I can, I can tell. Right. And then, and then, you know, it was be present with everything that was showing up. And then on the other side of that, that's the thing that I'm so enthralled about, because on the other side of it, I feel that I get to And again, I feel like I'm starting from zero, but zero with all kinds of unlimited freedom because I'm not locked into behavior patterns like codependency because of old trauma. I have complete freedom to be like, oh, oh, here's a simple little codependent example. Whenever I would get any kind of like phone notification, I would. have a physical reaction of urgency to respond. I do not have that experience anymore. I just happen to notice one day that like someone's texting me and I am aware that they texted and there's no reaction in my body and I know that whatever I'll get to it when I, whenever I'm done with what I'm doing. That is different, right? And that's the difference of like It's such a simple example, but, you know, even with interpersonal relationships, like, I don't double text anymore. Not that that's inherently wrong or bad, but I used to be the initiator, the initiator, because I'm very good at that. And now I'm like, oh, nope. If someone wants my time and attention they have to be emotionally mature, not just emotionally intelligent. Those are different things I learned, right? And so, they, I deserve to be sought out, and so I just, you know, I have I love that. I love that feeling of like, I, I'm not chasing anybody. I just fucking love myself. It's so fun. I'm not fucking lonely. I'm doing awesome.

Val: 55:16

I love that you said like, okay, this is what happened. What are you going to do? And I think even just the autonomy to be like, I'm not going to do anything right now. Yes. I don't want to do anything. Yeah, I don't. I feel like we've been talking about learning and moving around. I feel I've talked about this before. I feel so free and once the people are like, well, what do you believe as far as spirituality now or God or whatever? And I'm like, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I'm OK with that. Yeah. And I'm OK. Like. Leaving the time for whatever may come after, but I think it wasn't okay to be like, I don't know, or I'm undecided. Oh, right, right. Just kind of leaving that open.

Kat: 55:53

Well, our old worldview really told us that was somehow a failure, right? Yeah. Yeah. To not like have decided that the mysteries of the fucking universe, you happen to know. Yeah. right? Yeah. And so when you leave a restrictive worldview like that and you come to a place of like, I'm comfortable with the not knowing. Yeah. I think that's powerful. Oh,

Val: 56:10

it is. And it feels, I feel okay with it. Yeah. Even with, I know we talked about like, Oh, reasons why we might not be doing the podcast as often as like, Oh, I really need to like build my business and do this. And I've been allowing myself the space. Well, first of all, we got, I don't have to manage an Airbnb anymore. Oh, right. Yeah. And realizing that how much, even with all I know and all that I'm aware of how much we still underestimate stress in our lives and it actually took a while for me even to realize like, Oh, I feel different now because that, that kind of, because it was a 24 hour stress, right? Like something could, some kind of fuckery could happen at any moment. Right. Right. Right. Right. Iguana's getting stuck in the HVAC and coming back again and all the things, right? Realizing what a toll it was taking on me and giving myself more time, right? Oh, okay. I stopped that. So I'll have more time to work on my business. Actually, you need some time to like heal and kind of let that again. I love going back to like the farming, like the fallow ground, like how smart that is. I think because in my mind, if I was left to my own devices, I'd be like, Oh no, we need to like always be that must be good for the land. But no, you need to let it. Like rest and kind of die and let it get or re nurture itself. Whatever, right? And so I'm actually okay with these times, so I'm like, I don't know, I don't know if I really want to do that. Do I really, do I really want to involve myself or do, you know, in, in what it seems like now is how to grow a business. Right. Sounds terrible. Totally. Social media sounds terrible. Yeah. You know, so right now I'm like, I'm, I'm, I'm allowing myself that space and, and maybe there'll be other ways, whatever. But, I think

Kat: 57:59

I'm learning. And we're allowed to change our mind. Yes. We can get really excited about a thing and then, again, our culture really drilled this hole. You gotta see something through to the end. Why? That's made up. You can follow something because it's lighting you up, it's making you feel energized. And then if the energy shifts, which it fucking does sometimes, then you just can stay present with wherever your curiosity is taking you. And that is not a moral failure. That is just being open and responsive to what is making you feel the most alive. That's a good way to live our lives.

Val: 58:32

We've been talking about like what we're learning, what we're moving around. And I think just recently. And I don't know, controversial take or not. I think I'm realizing, so without like the promise of the afterlife, right? We realize the afterlife gets us to do things. It gets us to behave a certain way. Oh, sure. During, on earth. And then there's promises about then you might not reap the rewards. This is why you should do this behavior. In our old worldview. Yeah, yeah. And then you get it in the afterlife. I mean, also people with, like talking about karma and different things, right? Totally, yeah. Like this is why you should do a certain thing. I think I'm just noticing myself being like, I only have one short life to live, at least in this. I don't know if I believe in reincarnation yet, but you know, like in this, this life, this one right here, this is the only one I have. And it's, I don't know how long it's going to be, but even if it's to 90 or a hundred, it's still not a long time. I want to make decisions. about how I want to live this life and what kind of suffering comes with some of our decisions that we make for other people. Sure. And like, I've been finding myself saying like, I used to kind of be annoyed with people who were like, Oh, you know, YOLO or like, you know, well, you know, life is short. Yeah. Like, cause it felt like it was a permission to either behave badly or to indulge. Sure. Or it seemed like a reason. And so sorry to all those people that I judged the best. I was an asshole, but I get you now. Now I, I see, I'm like, no, life is short and I want to make decisions that are going to allow me to enjoy it. To allow me to have the least suffering as possible. We've talked about this before, but again, just noticing rooting out all the ways that I think life should be hard. Like how my life is maybe less hard because I don't have children. Like, isn't that a weird thing to think? Yeah. Like, oh, I should be, like, suffering. Right. Or like, with the responsibilities or the trials of parenting. Right. Like, I should be suffering. Like, that, how does that, how did I get that? I know how, but like, how did I get the thought that, like, I should be suffering in this world, it's just wild. It is, yeah. But I feel like I'm shedding those. You

Kat: 1:00:49

are shedding that. And it feels good. I'm excited for you. So, that leads us into our third question, which is, what's bringing you pleasure? And I think, you know, it feels really fucking cool and radical. It was really radical to both of us when we first heard that concept, right? Like how to center pleasure in your life. That was a fucking no, no. Right. And our culture at large, you have to earn all the pleasure you get. Right. And that's bullshit. That's made up.

Val: 1:01:11

You have to be good

Kat: 1:01:12

to have pleasure. Totally. Yeah. And fuck it all. So like pleasure can be as. simple as, you know, a warm raspberry pick from the bush, right? And you're just present in this fucking moment, right? The gentle breeze on your face. It doesn't have to be extravagant though. Extravagance is completely fucking allowed.

Val: 1:01:33

Yeah. Have you heard this? I don't think we talked about in the podcast yet, but people were talking about the concept of a glimmer. Which is the opposite of a trigger. Like follow the glimmers. And you talk about shiny things. But like those little moments where you see like, you know a flower or you hear your favorite song or you have like a pleasant exchange with a stranger. Right? Like those little glimmers. So following and just really Enjoying and savoring. That's the word I've been looking for all day. Savoring. Yeah. These moments. It's so good for your fucking mental health. Savoring. So looking for those glimmers.

Kat: 1:02:11

Savoring is being present

Val: 1:02:14

in the fucking moment. Savoring is mindfulness. Yes. It is. Savoring is being present. Yeah. Yeah.

Kat: 1:02:18

That's so

Val: 1:02:19

good. I love it. I like that.

Kat: 1:02:20

So what specifically is bringing you pleasure these days? You know,

Val: 1:02:24

I think that in general I have just been Kind of like releasing myself to just be as silly and like playful as I want to be all the time. Ooh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I don't think I had a problem with that before. My attitude toward it has been different. Like, maybe a certain way you should act. Like, no, I'm going to be as silly, make as many jokes. Even if that means I kind of feel like, unrestrained, unrestrained. Yes.

Kat: 1:02:54

Unediting.

Val: 1:02:54

Yes. Unrestrained, unedited, like just be silly and goofy and funny. And I'm still, still having a lot of joy in Pickleball. We've done pickleball party buses, like they tell you about that, playing pickleball in like wine country went to Hawaii, oh, all of our love goes to people of Hawaii playing tournaments there field trips just, just so much fun playing and yeah, oh, this is, so this is all the unrestrained, there's this playfulness that I don't think we get as adults where it's like, you're kind of obsessed with something. Maybe video games are kind of the same, anytime you get, you're like, when can I go play? And then you're like, you need your friends. You need your friends on the block. Like who's playing and like what other like fun ways can we play this game in like different locations or whatever. But it is, if I get this image of like being on like the block as a kid and then like, you just want to pick up game or you just like, you need your friends to play and you just can't wait to be playing again. Yeah. So I'm surrounded with people who also, there's the curmudgeons, but like most of the people, it's like they are activating that same like, okay, let's go play. And I, Oh, I think play is such a big part of what we need. Yeah. And someone just gave me like a feedback of like a newer friend that, that I guess I had sort of like really had an impact by talking about play and how I'm like, I think you need more play in your life and how, how children play when they feel safe and how we need play. Oh, there's another stat about how. Basically, it was, we can take on concepts through play so much quicker. Oh, a hundred percent. You saw that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like, you know, 20 reps versus 10, 000 reps or something like that, right? How through play, and that's why gamifying your life, making, making it a game. Yeah.

Kat: 1:04:49

Yeah, absolutely. You know when, when the question like what's bringing you pleasure, literally what I wrote down was gamifying my life, like that's my answer too. Like it, it's an infusion of creativity, right? Yeah. And then it makes us feel powerful. any situation and figure out how to make it a game. Like, literally something that you don't want to happen can be like, I'm going to turn this into a game. I'm going to, like, I'm going to play I'm going to play with how am I going to turn this into something that I want it to be now, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a little bit vague, but I do it all the time. All, all kinds of stuff. Like, oh, I dishes at my house. Like, my kids are pretty helpful around the house and I'm not a very authoritarian. I'm like, hey, they're older now, they're middle schoolers. And so I'm like, hey, we all live together. We need to cooperate in our living environment. We all have different things that we're going to do. And so they've tried different chores and I try to get both of them to do the dishes and they just don't want to do. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to take one for the team. I'm going to be the person that does the dishes. I typically have not enjoyed doing dishes, but it turns out about once a week, I love to do the dishes. And it's so funny because I decided to let myself do it when I want to do it. And that's so fun, right? And then what do you want to do while you're doing the dishes? I like to listen to an audiobook. I like to be a little bit high, right? And then it's like a fucking sensory pleasure. Also, I put a rolly chair in my kitchen, so there's like an office chair, like by the sink. I am fucking slowly vibing out, washing the dishes, having the best fucking time, right? And that feels so different than like, I gotta do this thing, I gotta be responsible, I'm tired of the kitchen being a mess. Sometimes it is that I'm tired of the kitchen being a mess, but I will make sure that I make it playful, right? That I make it fun to me. Yeah, why not?

Val: 1:06:41

Why not?

Kat: 1:06:42

Because it's just so much better. Yeah, everything's better when you make it a game.

Val: 1:06:48

Oh, that's so good.

Kat: 1:06:50

Yay. Yay. Oh Val, it's been so nice to like look at your face and watch you as you tell great stories.

Val: 1:06:58

It's good to be in this space again.

Kat: 1:07:00

Yay. I didn't even talk about aliens. You

Val: 1:07:03

did it. I talked about buttholes. That was not on my bingo card for today, but yeah. Can I tell them? Well, I can edit this out, but you were like I haven't even told you about the aliens yet, Val. The aliens. And I'm like, what are they telling you? Like, are they just saying like, I love you, cat. I love you. You're so amazing, cat. You're like, yeah, but there's other stuff too. I can't, I can't tell you what a polo.

Kat: 1:07:29

Oh my God. Oh my gosh, the, yeah, it's a whole thing. We'll save it. We'll save it.

Val: 1:07:33

We'll save it. That's a teaser. I love you, Kat. I love you now. Bye. Bye.